After fire/ flames out exhaust, black smoke... ?

Hello, been on this forum taking some tips a couple of times, but am currently stumped by the above issue- so I thought I would join and ask for help...

I have a 2004/5 tuonon fighter (cos I cant afford the factory yet).


I believe I am running lean/rich, how to I tell which it is, and how do I work out why?

Story so far...

I noticed a little bit less oomph when overtaking, almost like a wee flat spot. When I bring the revs up above 7000, and twist the throttle a few times I get some black smoke, and some after firing/ flame out the exhaust.

Had the air filter out and did the same, same results.

Checked one of the spark plugs, dry carbon (would have tried more, but my plug remover sheered trying to remove the next one- i'd consider that over-tight, but they were replaced by an Aprilia dealer at a (nearly)full service last month).

It is hard to tell with v'twins, but idling sounds a bit lumpy/erratic, I was told a slight arythmia is normal, but this is a little off.I think.

At the moment all i've done is stick a little redex in the tank, it could be dirty carbs? but I really don't really want to be stripping them down without knowing for sure, the bike is my sole means of transportation (I know, it ain't clever to buy italian under the circumstances) so any diagnosing or fixing will be on whatever day off I have, but the bike has to be ride-able within a few hours. I am assuming running rich isnt doing a great deal of damage...

If you have an idea how I can begin please let me know, please note, I am broke, so I wont be taking it to be dyno'd or whatevers, I am not interested in power commanders or aftermarket shenanigans, trying to keep it mostly stock.

Again, Hi, and thanks for your time
Paul

Redex?
WTF did you put that **** in the tank?Might be ok to use on old Brit shitters,but not a modern efi bike.Yes thats right,the T is efi,so no carbs.

Fairymuff, I remembered that now, zero experience with injectors, shouldn't do any harm anyhow, still no idea what next step should be... ?

verdomde said:

Fairymuff, I remembered that now, zero experience with injectors, shouldn't do any harm anyhow, still no idea what next step should be... ?

Click to expand...

I would suggest lying down in a dark room

I know, it was a stupid mixup, but anything constructive? As far as I can tell there are no leaks in the exhaust. Could it be a problem at the injectors?

Sounds to me like you have a exhaust/air filter/fuel chip missmatch.

Ah, that sounds interesting to me... At the service the dealer had ordered the wrong filter, so sent one to me after the fact. I fitted it, but I had thought maybe it wasn't the problem as the symptoms didn't change with removal of the filter. I didn't realise the exhaust/air filter/fuel chip worked in such a way as to be mis-mathched (exhaust/chip yes, didn't know about the filter). So looking at that again then. Will stick the old filter back in and see if the symptoms ease. Sadly the new filter has no distinguishing marks, so cant tell what it is...

Thanks, really helpful

Hang on,....you had a service done a month ago by an Aprilia dealer?
The bike has started running rough since then?

I'd take it back to them and complain.

I guess I could contact them, but I fitted the filter, and they didn't do the clearances cos I was told they were fine and couldnt afford it anyway (Aprilia guy had a look at the rear cylinder and said it was fine). They did send me the filter though. I'll contact them too then.

Is this for real.........:cuckcoo :skeptic

Fo shizzle

Did they...or did they NOT do your valves? (all 8 of them?)
If it was due a valve check, they ALL need checking.
Expense doesn't come into it....if you think a valve check is costly, just wait until you have to start paying for new heads, or a top end rebuild.

Agree with KB....sounds like fueling....make sure everything is matched up before you go any further.
If it's been recently serviced, as has already been said, take the ******* thing back.

They didn't check the valves, he said he had a look for me anyway as it was 'only a couple of bolts' I couldn't afford the full service plus chain and sprocket and brakes I needed, so I went with what I could afford, asked them not to do the valves (fella in Ride On said they didn't need done too). I don't know how to 'make sure everything is matched up', but will put the old filter back in and see if it's cured, then will swap back and get on to Jim Allan. Ta for the advice

Hmm, old filter back in, still afterfiring and black smoke, going for a ride and will check once more after. Any ideas what to look at next? (will contact the dealers who serviced it too)

I presume that you've checked that the oil level is correct?
And not overfilled?

(In the above centre of the sight glass, hot engine, immediately after a 10km run at shutoff)

Yeah, its just below centre, will double check though

So that's just below center after a run with the engine good and warm then?

Sorry for the delay, at a wedding weekend, yeah, it's pretty much exactly half way when the engine is properly warm.

Keith B said:

I believe I am running lean/rich, how to I tell which it is, and how do I work out why?

Click to expand...

I don't think this is your problem based on thread todate, but FYI...

Soot on exit of your exhaust can should be light to mid grey. Same for spark plugs. If black / very dark carbon, then it's running rich. If very light grey it's running weak. That's for petrol vehicles in general. My Tuono exhaust is slightly darker grey than I expected, but it's running spot on, so I expect with good use of throttle mix is slightly richer than your average Puch Maxi.

To change fueling you need to modify the ECU, which is why fueling is so stable... and doesn't need modification unless other performance enhancing mods have been applied.

In general...
Black smoke means your fuel isn't burning efficiently.
Flames mean your ignition timing is out.

However, with what you describe, sounds like service agent did something wrong.

If plugs changed, did they put wrong spec units in?
If not changed, maybe they failed to reconnect something governing vacuum advance or timing... so make sure everything looks 'connected' or get someone familiar with Tuono's to check it out for you... but I'd take it back to the dealer first and get them to fix what they broke!

Verdomde, Pauls advice..."but I'd take it back to the dealer first and get them to fix what they broke"
April the 5th you post up telling us of your problem...April the 11th your last post.
Did you ring the dealer, who serviced your bike.
If not you are not doing yourself any favour's.

Leave it any later and the dealer will say, why didn't you contact us earlier.

And, what's this about a dealer, not having a filter, and posting it to you, for you to fit.

Man, you gotta wise up a little.

Its now the 27th, and no other replies from you. Tell the guys here what's happening.