Throttle sync/Valve lash/Clutch noise Problems.

Title says it all. Thought I'd walk myself through this bike in a somewhat 'Joe Average Generic' kind of explanation about a few fundamental theories. I cannot find that thread I read, but someone did not correct a concept one had about throttle sync. Their theory started to make me wonder if I had my theory wrong?

As they were discussing the stagger-syn or the +/- setting of 50 mmHg to the other cylinder, the valve lash came up. The poster made a good point that sort of made sense. It could kind of trick you into that abstract written, or his concept to the [why] the sync does not need to be moved.

I am going to try to understand this concept as he walked how the valve change will change how the air flows. So far, I followed that abstract written. I have to agree if the valve can flow with a wider valve lash as opposed to a tighter valve, I could see the one valve closing took more time staying open.

So his concept was that to remove that pop on the idle or bottom, was to set the valves to their proper lash and the pop will go away... In theory... So says the abstract written. So for a Joe-G-Neric bike as far as a computer bike goes and or a carb bike, if we set the valves, the pop goes away we set the proper gap, the clutch bang dies too. That is why you do not touch the low speed air screws. Those are preset from the factory, you do not need to move those... In theory was his.

:dunno I had a T handed to me with zero miles on it. I start her up, she is popping and sniffing hot or cold. I had to turn the bike around. Just those few hundred feet and could not ride this bike, literally! I proceeded to check valve lash [in theory] because someone said the pop will go away with a valve lash, it changes the flow.

As I came to find the valve lash was spot on [in theory] I had no need to set the throttle sync... As [his] theory goes. Does that make sense to you? His theory, or 'that concept' to that theory, was how much 'absolute' validity is that = If I checked the valves? OK, here is another theory...

Say I have a broken piston ring, a hole in the piston. Was that not low to no compression, respectively? I set the valve lash to spec. Should not the sync dial in now? :lol


:dunno I took that concept, walked the valve lash to its conclusion. It is all about 'COMPRESSION' not valve lash. Would you agree? If the linkage slowly wears out, would not a throttle plate lag? If the design has a screw to set the parts all equal to begin with all brand new, how else do you assemble and old multi-carb bank? Don't you have to initially build the carb assembly so as all the linkages are lined up first? Are you not chasing that new, lined up throttle plate next to each other to; Equally rise at the same time; no part wears equally in theory, right? One part stays cleaned and lubed. The other part caught dirt and rubbed it to dust. Show me slight slop in the linkage now, as time goes by.

Show me how a valve lash will correct that throttle sync linkage slop. I rest my case. Show me how if you pull the clutch in, some of you have heard the noise go away. Say a multi-cylinder engine would be out of phase, pulse the clutch basket at a different time where it would rattle the floating plates back and forth in the bellow of that crankcase.

You pull said lever, you removed the frictions from steels so the whipping continues at the larger basket. That is chained to the crank. Eliminate that whipping noise but the disconnect inside that crankcase is now more quiet in a less bellowing sound.

There is only one answer if no one there is correcting that gentlemen. Therefore, it is hard to get an answer to my computer question, if I read theory after theory and it does not walk as it does in my world.

I haven't yet begun to explain how well mine runs without a pop from that engine. Yes, it has a hez at 3-4K, but that [in theory to me] is a spot on throttle-to-air screw-sync. Don't give me that valve lashack theory. I brought clutch noise, not lash my throttle sync. Big difference.

Someone needs to explain themselves... Yeah, valve lash it, leave the t-body alone, shes sunk back in likea dis. :lol

If you digested any of this, the next page reads, how do I sync a throttle body where the throttle plates are a one piece unit. Well, you don't. Nor do you set the valve lash to sync. Make sense? Those air screws are all about the sync. What happens when the compression drops as opposed to the other cylinder. Would you throw a valve adjust at it, or an air screw at it, you make the call.

I'm following that same concept as to raise the compression, I would adjust the valve? Do you see how that concept dead ended? Don't bring in a tight valve we got the compression back. No, I am talking within spec but needs one shim size change, now we have book spec again. Show me. See where I am coming from? It has to walk like the 3 amigos walk. Fuel, spark, compression. Remove one. Will the bike run? In fact, will anything light up. Take a BBQ fire. Find the 3 amigos in that. Did that run in the absolute? Lose one and there is no joy? Cold burgers still red raw, pass the condiments?

So did that theory hold any water, we set the air screws for fueling, not a valve lash, correct? I mean, on this particular twin, it is all about that air screw because you are handcuffed to the rest. I am out of that factory (+/-)50mmHg setting. That was pop city and if it was called, hot town, summer in the city, that bike's popping like something ****** are the lyrics out the crate.

Hey, insaneyesore is now I see why she sat on the floor with that reputation. How did I solve the pop? It sure was not setting the valves. Oh no, this was your two step, we do not have a moveable throttle plate so now the steps become easier. It comes down to one step and that is set the air screws for a sweet running, has the grunt to carry the front kind of tune up.

Lock me up, throw away the key, if you are riding a popping ape. That says to me, it seems like the most dangerous setting you are sitting on. I stall at a light? Car in back jumps I'm dead meat. One ****** tune out of that crate' wait till the dealer show. I'm going to send an ear to corporate.

Too much vino during lunch are the test monkeys in italy? The engineers are seeing if they can toss Vito off the seat with the popping buck we are emission compliant the joke is on you! Oh, but my bike never ran so well. I'm going to toggle this puppy on and off like its no tomorrow, stumble leana you corporate I need an adjective. :rolleyes :lol

This is 'common mod forum,' where as I make selective moves to the bike and show you how to get there in the generic. The generic is not only an AFR move, it is also a map move w/out Axone. Axe me I tell you no lie.

2know I have read a few of your ramblings and I cannae work oot whit planet you are fae min. Is English your 3rd language by any chance

I have FI fever. Its a disease. I speak in a book savvy type of type. I don't know if I explained the oil level or how-to find the proper oil level in the 'oil bag' would you call it? This 3rd language is more 'abstract' writing as in that darn service manual. I don't know about you, but that book confuses me. I now approach this bike as any other bike as if it had a set of points and a carb like the old days way back when.

We no longer have that option to correct the jetting or ignition. Well, we can, but it takes other units like a PC or the Axone. WATT planet I'm from is to take the irresistible force I have or say it is more a virus or a disease I have about fuel injection and how much I am behind bars and can't get in that black box.

I had two choices. Take this money and find some therapy and talk it out on a chair or couch. The other choice was to sit on the bike and talk to it. As you can see, most think I made a bad choice. I should have taken the therapy. But, whom am I making happy-face in the end, my therapist with my virus money? I have an attack to perform or pee form is piss all over myself waiting for the glue to dry.

It's hard to break this tuning habit. The pipe wasn't enough. The piggy wasn't enough. The race-cleaner was not it. The porting didn't do it. The bore job didn't cut it. The black box? Oh, that puppy is the holy grail of planets.

An Irresistible Force even I cannot control





I cut nothing on the OEM. It is all backprobing hits at the weather-pac's or behind the connectors. The CAN system likes to be left alone. Plus, your homemade wire harnesses are quick connects so you can jump from one (+/-) to the next. I know nothing about ohm's laws and all that. I know more not to smoke a wire harness or blow fuses is the end game, right?

Watt is left to do but roll up the extension cord, plug in the stealth light for night video runs. The AFR is complete. The next step is to plug it in. That takes time to set the AFR sniffer counter on a rod, slash, acts as the next camera mount extension as well. The cut box lives on top of the water tower waiting to setup. That is it for now... Sans waiting for the pipe and muffler mods. I'll bring the madness or progress forward as the bike progresses into the; watch that set of pointsays it all. You'll see WATT ship I came off from soon enough.

We are going open loop if the parts come or not, ear comes that tune up. Enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pR0aqlDCuQ&NR=1

This is motorcycle computer hacking 101 call it. This is so simple in basics, it runs in the absolute. There is not other toot I discuss. I am planting the 'abstract' so some of you that are less computer savvy can sort of grasp a less complex concept in a more complex way. It is more we reverse the engineering. Click Engineering as a matter of fact. It is a communication message that reads like a wall switch. It is either on or off. The computer is either in 1 or 0 mode. The set of points are either open or closed. So concepts says I say I can run anything I want as it will walk itself into infinity.

To make that loop happen, revert back to your 3 amigos, spark, fuel, ignition. No matter how you lay down the words, you better be stepping to those 3 steps. You know spark is not first. However, you have that concept and now can walk the steps, I would assume you would place compression first, fuel next, spark last. That is one cycle in a perpetual motion are those 3 steps.

Try this as a concept, see if you can bring in any other way this happens, meaning, I asked the more air guys to bring in another number other than my choice being that 1Atmo number. I am going to ask you to bring in any other number or a 3rd number other than my numbers, show me how that computer works. Here is reverse engineering in sentence-structure-abstract; it will 'click' in the head, you'll go, cool **** is that bike complicated ~ If 1 and 0 are for cylinders 1 and cylinder 2 uses 0, could I turn the key off, know which cylinder to fire, once I start the engine?

So the concept goes, if I designed a sequential fire ignition, could I not use 1 as fire 1 and 0 as the next sequence? How about if I expand the abstract now. Let us add more cylinders to make it easier to understand. My sequence fire runs; 1-2-4-3. My sequential fire would be; 1-0-1-0. Notice I use 1 and 4 as my 1 and use 0 for my 2-3 fire. I have now designed the same old old style points opening in an on/off/on/off position, into a modern ignition. Say, a point about those points; My hands are tied. There are no other numbers but those two going on and off like a set of points. They, (on/off) are forever. Fast forward that on/off concept is now; did you see that evolution of the first old black box run on and off? The new box is a little more advanced with the same 10101010101010 sequence, meaning, it runs in an on/off click style of engineering.

Ask yourself, did I come to a complete loop? Did I come to a conclusion? Did I repeat an absolute you cannot repeat any other theory sort of you could. Thing is, we would still wind up on the same page no matter what you say or watt I say, we on/off/1/0 the same abstract? Did this make sense, yes or no in concept? This is tuning theory101 and it circles back to the WHY the heck is he talking abouthis? I am explaining a concept so it barks in the absolute.

Did I bang that valve adjust to sync the throttle, yes or no? Did that make any sense you move an air screw that remains a constant, rather than the valve lash that will cause the air screw to be adjusted in or out? But, he did not think of ring wear. How do you adjust that sort of synconcept? Do you see there is no absolute step to a conclusion? You have the ring moving wide is an air loss. You have the valve seat with air loss, sitting off angle. So goes the worn valve guide; is the valve no longer sitting in its original place? Nope.

Therefore, how many moves to the valve sync theory happened? Well, one out of 3. Does valve seat loss means compression loss cause air flow problems? Yes. Does the ring gap have a compression value on the decline with a gap moving open for more air loss? Yes. Did the valve lash have anything to do with the throttle sync? No. Why. Because that is a flow of speed. So, between the compression loss, the valve lash speed between the other cylinder and that compression loss, is not the sync concept all about and on/off air signal?

Are we not back to adjusting an air signal to blend with another air signal? So if you cannot adjust the throttle plate between 1 and 2, are you not handcuffed to the air screw bleeding off more or less air to match the other signal?

A valve adjustment is an air speed move. You did not change any AFR. You moved the valve off its seat slower or faster is that gap between each other. If one valve pounded itself flat and lost gap, is not adjusting the valve sending in the same air but at a different speed? Therefore, does not the air screw send in a different AFR?

And with now you adjusting the air volume vs. fuel entry, are you not sending in more air say? Would not that drop the idle? If the other air screw was closed more, would that not have the fuel displace that air we close on that 1Atmo number and change the AFR?

The concept says; We cannot change the air pulse or loss of fuel to the others gain via valve lash. Valve lash says speed of the same air, not a change of Air [FR] via the air screws. :rolleyes

Why? Why did not the house gurus straighten out that theory or abstract over there? 5 pages of how to check oil level is another thread. And I again asked, 'where can I get a computer tuning question asked if they can't get the oil level squared away, the pop out of the way...' And I'm in the way? :lol

Eyesore slowly evolves into another tuning mule. The meguybeer hack sadly noticed they were on vacation making that manual. Don't get me wrong, it's a decent manual. I now have to transfer into, Veto LeanGreenKnee the backwards mechanic, trying to re-Engineer the tune up, Click style. Fastest way to light her up. The beauty of this way, you can shut her off, run back to closed loop and peel off a better mileage. But for car work, bike work, you lift off the throttle, flip the toggle to open loop.

The work says; I have no clue what this wire color code is? But book wise, we turn to page 277 or find the wire diagram so you can follow along; if you want to understand how to find a short and all that code signal no carb or points can talk to you... On the dash pod that is.

Find where it says injectors front and rear. We know a red with white tracer is the front cylinder. We know the other wire is green with white tracer. That says rear cylinder. We now see a dot that connects 3 of the same color wires to the coil, on page 277. So to see the orange with white tracer on each injector, we can conclude that goes to the coil we found our other wire to the computer.

We can take that same two wire concept to the front or rear turn signals. We know that blue wire is ground. Blue wire will show up on the other winker side, we know know who is right winker color, who is left winker, we eliminate the one wire that ties the turn signals together says blue is main ground color... So far. Remember about junction boxes used. I think a 0 to 5v uses its own ground loop. Do not get confused thinking your ground is good you tug on some wire with the same color wires connect to it.

Try to make it follow a step from point A to point B. Try to think it acts as one wire no matter how many connections. That means it says to connect A from battery. Install the resistor between A and B. B is connected to the battery ground. If you do not have that resistance between A and B:

1. You lost the loop.
2. (+/-) is A and B. The forward slash is the resistor.
3. A resistor is a fuel piggy, a light bulb, an AFR meter.

Basic Electrical Abstract said another way from 1-2-3 are now my A-B-SEA of 3 fundamental variables:

A. Connector not connected. Read #1. Sort of said the same thing?
B. Wire out of connector. Read #2. Did not A get pulled out or say B instead?
C. Short to ground. Read the 3rd amigo. Did not the bulb filament break? Did not the one wire that can never touch ground, found ground, or say the internal wires or a resistor burned out in the AFR box? That volt on the move stopped short... Pun intended. Make sense it walks in the absolute? Cannot have any other answer are those 3 variables. The point the way like Fu/Sp/Com amigos.

How could you get lost, throw parts at it, have the same code or same problem, etc. Gotta die with those 6 variables to hacking/tuning.

give it a rest pal dont think anybody is interested

Will do.

dazwolny said:

give it a rest pal dont think anybody is interested

Click to expand...

I've got a private message that says they are VERY interested in watt I do. Therefore, I will use your abstract against you as we both come to some conclusion as to modding my bike vs. you attempting things on your bike. Since you are as a baby twin and as green as I, how many mods have you contributed to the forum? Just asking?

See where this is headed? This says this is a big sand box. Lots of other threads about toys to watch, listen, hear beer stories and all that word association. I can't have a beer without a mod, so I'm about to run the irresistible chain adjust generic. That means I am going up against my own chain break-in theory. Here is another theory. If you do not enter this thread anymore, it is totally out of your world, you have nothing left to do with it, nor do you care if anyone gives a feather duster as I clean up the thread some. Could you run along now and keep your own comments to yourself, or be my guest make what you like and hit a post here again. Give your opinion. This is what it's all about someone comes to Disrupt the pit session, I don't really mind.

You'll find out about that song being some irresistible object is hard to move is me. That is to say I'm going to finish off this tune as fast as I can. This is a great bike. I'm quite impressed. So, just for the hee-haw of it, I'm itching to get back on it. In due time. Can't rush the beer brewing. Don't rush right out. Same thing. Take your time.

Now maybe your posts are not having it, I have no clue, nor do I care. See, your world and my world sort of met on the same page. Was that quote all about you, guy? You are telling a racer to give it a rest here comes the drop of the green flag? You need to run along and take your bad advice with you. No offense. Maybe this mod section is not for you? I don't wanna assume now. Maybe it is. Now if you'll excuse me, someone is waiting for more. Maybe one person is all it takes to prove you wrong. Now, are we all even up?

Guy wants more, you want to give it a rest and it's my thread? Kind of silly, don't you think? Remember, watt you say, can and will be mirrored back at you so you get the gist of your own quote. For me, I like to be in the absolute. I do not like to assume too many things. It might blow up in your face.

didnt mean it as it sounded i just feel more people are taking the piss out of you than reading what you have to say

The semi-gut. Not as full gutted as Nob's. Kept the tip plate and cat in. Drilled the drain hole out larger so the rivets would fall out. It is more a 2-in-1 sleeper side now. Has a strong pulse out the one side. I may have to send a bearing over it. You know, the proverbial, "Muffler Bearing?"

daz,

They have a right to do what they want and what they say. I'm not in their way. I do my thing, they do their thing. Everyone is happy. I do not see their point, but if that is the groupthink, it is WATT it is. If I have one fan club that is interested in the way I mod, it's not about the penis goofing. You think I'm a ********? Yeah, well note the video prop. You tell me I can't do something on this earth is you are stepping on the wong toes. I got some wig wham is start slamming some tech down.

If you do not run it in the absolute, you'll be hearing it from me. This bike only works one way. It is one wire away from a boat anchor and it's your call, your map2 and all that. WATT is to say I got some tune coming down the road this thing is spitting nasty right now. And not one spit out the intake I mean = Cold or hot. Give me that Axoneshit. :lol

:eekWell, first time out with the muleyesore shakedown. A couple of things I noted:

1. ****'inn'smooooooth I toggle on the Dobeck.
2. Because I wanted to burn this setting out for the remainder, she stalled when I first stopped setting up a pot. Closed the pot cut. Closed the a-N. Opened the low to mid just a touch. Kept on turning the pot till it stalled. Then I decided to blip the throttle till a pot took a clean set. Figured this would be first try.
3. Without the AFR meter on, I could not see how much accel pot to move to. That is a wait&see.
4. The gutted pipe was another story. You lift, this thing slows down like a truck pulled the air brake. Lunge me forward, it's that whip like effect to get used to I throttle back up.
5. Through some reads here and there, it said you will need to install that map2 so the dash does not code?
a. Yes, it will code in stock mode ~ If parameters are met. Ski roo corporate if they have time to read any posts is you'll get toasted I bark anything more. Meaning, one time I found something on another computer bike, passed that hack along. Corporate change that trick the next model year. :thumbdown
b. No, my pig will not code the dash where it says... Service [triankle got you locked you ********** kind of red triangle] next to it? That says if you can get the tune right and cough-cough, don't go there kind of clean is my dash. Maybe I am not saying anything new... Just saying watt I found today first run down the block.
6. Sootcity you brake. Yeah, you smell that backwash, you know you need to add, cough-cough-somewherelse.
7. My balls itch I'm waiting for that creep'inn piggyback 02 mid-pipe.
8. WATT was the mule run was just WOT die said laughing under my helmet. Yes, hammered from a light and that pipe said here comes ski.
9. Oh no. It was like I said exactly like the tune walked.
10. Carried that front end away from the light like no one's business. Sha'DING! I got a wheel stand bike I can't stand it. My diaper needs changing... Wait for the mid-piggy-piggy... We are note even closed looped to tuning yet is open loop the loopholes.

:eek :dunno

I'ma going to be very ha pissedoff I havea forka leak, Aprilia Corporate! You can't take the front brake stopping(?), or is that pasta turn not enough at the fork bottom?! 2-year warranty no wonder! Too much wine on the assembly line? :lol

http://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...lenium technologies kws&fr2=tab-web&fr=yff50c

You've probably seen this video already. I sure am getting an ear full with the transmission shifting. Stupid crazy to have a preset idle where you should have a cable to dial in the deep braking, NOT slowing you down? Are you listening you pasta pullers? Work on that bike, stopulling your pass da cable, you, you... If I could peel that shoe of a country off the map, I'd give you the BOOThe crap you doing with the electrics! IDIOTS!

Fix your bike!

Signed,

Foot Soreyesore!

Eyesore Debrief




Revision exhaust. My next move is to weld the internals back in or on, take your pick. Note the moveable tunnel-pipe(s), where one floats. I assume that is how they slide the shield up to the back cover plate. I take it, that was flared so it would not fall out. Through the mesh, we still are not viewing some mouth flow moves with the tunnel tubes, call them.

The mid-pipe is on its way, so once the exhaust is removed, I'll pull the tip off again; weld the internal core; drill a rivet hole for the core to sit stationary; no rattles per pulsations. That should quiet her down some. I have a washer over cap now so as to snuff the note or tone-outhe-tip.

Sea Low and Smooooth

http://www.youtube.com/v/eDjemYkNjI4





Ducati ceo dies... Yeah and life ishit'inn the shortso WATT. I'm going to live everyday like it's my last... Nothing will change WOT die throttle up on. Well, if wee-wee are the same age, I've been yanking on wheel since 4 years old. Gotta starthem younger or you're kid is a backmark ear my words. Balls to the walls or rails... Trim the bush is at the IOM TT or stay home! You ain't got the you know WOT out the helmethe think you do is think again.

The AFR is up and running. Shake down runs may now commence. And yes, this puppy will hit before the peg will. If there is a sporting day, I install the bung cap or hang off the bike more. I have a direct shot at the rear. That intersection is going to be so busy ricocheting off those flanges. They stick into the pipe for welding purposes. I've got plenty of read at that angle bouncing off the wall, the flanges, the side hit for the front cylinder reading. Is good.

First shakedown run will be in closed loop = Baseline.
Second shake will be in open loop = Baseline.
Third, runs in closed loop = Air assist AFRead we lean that gas tank farther.
Fourth run we send eyesore in open loop = Fuel cutter in play.
Fifth shake&bake; the air and fuel screws kick it up in open loop.

Will I run mApe2? Hell no! Are my hands tied to thishitty {APRILIA NORTH AMERICA where is that "drive-ability recall] map!!!!!" Then, Yes I'm stuck like glue to the X the Y F U [ANA]!!!!
Will I run my own RECALL mapEyesore by Click Engineering???? You BET! Clickey my dickey or flippy the finger I hope they are watching/reading dis.
Will I run back and forth to my dealer to switch an bait a map OE for a map2? $$$$ Do I look like? Do I buy the axone or the bike. Thousands for a tool just tune this bike?
Will I run a patch, band-aid, tourniquet, keep the rag and tools in the patient kind of repair?

Well, does it not look like I'm trying the attempt to smooth out that chuckey cheezeIS H? Hey ANA, it's no wonder this bike sat that long in the windowithe reputation it has. I more took it on as a challenge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAxLfEyajzE

47 minutes of shakedown runs, both in open a closed loops. Less than 500 miles on the bike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IDQIZ0Wzow

I was told spot on what the Ape runs under. As you watch the OE setting, 15 AFR [14.7 and lean it out from there] is the running fuel trim. I'm not even close to a sync, just enough to unspike some knock out of that 17 hit. 17 [AFR] means 'pop.' Digital spikes are the air suck. TPS already is in WOTwist, so that lag at the camera is that vacuum suck spike. Kind of works like that.

In the beginning of the vid, you can hear her sign off, unload that triangle; stall me out in the street. Worst part of FI is that instant key off/kill switch; no run. You are out in the open unless you can foot paddle off the on coming. Better be ready for it... Keep to the right lane you R&D. Anyway, I have my two baselines and now the air/trim begins.

You hear a pop during stops? You can't hear the pop, but I heard that, watched the AFR smack 17 lean, then move back up to 15. And did I eat some tank? Oh yeah, I took the basic same loops on break-in, never saw the low fuel light come on unit it switched to open loop.

15 AFR is about all she wrote for now. I'll try for 15.5 or maybe 16 AFR; as the steady past the gas pumps. As long as I can clear that nagging pop, I may have to work it by ear on the air screws. :dunno Take that axone and shove it. :lol