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badger mod question (yes again)

it looks like your airbox mod is working only because you get somewhere false air which comes to the motor unfiltered anyway...

the air comes in the normal way...through the tubes. through the filter then into the airbox ...the top being removed enlarges the airbox and with the seal around the edge of the airbox sealing against the tank ..hence no unfiltered air gets into the engine.....its not hard to understand....
 
theruck said:
this would make sense if the airbox was switching from empty to non empty. but the air flows there so i would say you can feel the harder acceleration in some situations but still no extra bhp to catch.
if the theory behind this mod was right then you take a 125 ccm 4t china scooter you put a 20liter airbox on it and you get 25 bhp out of it
Click to expand...

If the engines used up the air thats in the airbox and is waiting for air to rush into the airbox to use then its not going to be able to burn as much fuel.
Make the airbox bigger then it has a little bit more air to use and then can burn a little more fuel, giving a slight increase in HP over the standard airbox.
A cylinder is NEVER filled to full atmospheric pressure even without an airbox and just bare velocity stacks because in the given time that the intake valve is open and the piston is drawing air in the air cant move in and fill the cylinder fast enough.
 
i really do not want to go against everyone. if i wanted to do it i could pick up tyres as discussion :) but from what is posted on this forum the mod actually does only a better feel on acceleration but in fact does not bring you anything more like new stickers because one of the moders has changed from original to K&N when modding the other one fit a new exhaust with the mod or was riding a custom eprom until changed the airbox or the other one posted only one measurement graph which does not say anything about the airbox mod itself. from pure sience there is no chance you get more bhp with this mod as you always get the same amount of air through the engine at the same revs before and after moding. of course you will alter "something" and you feel the difference as you probably screwed the factory settings which is a compromise so the engine works well in all revs and all throttle positions. it looks like this airbox mod is just time consuming money wasting and probably components risking and you shoul go better for replacing something else like the rear brake to make it work :)
 
theruck said:
i really do not want to go against everyone. if i wanted to do it i could pick up tyres as discussion :) but from what is posted on this forum the mod actually does only a better feel on acceleration but in fact does not bring you anything more like new stickers because one of the moders has changed from original to K&N when modding the other one fit a new exhaust with the mod or was riding a custom eprom until changed the airbox or the other one posted only one measurement graph which does not say anything about the airbox mod itself. from pure sience there is no chance you get more bhp with this mod as you always get the same amount of air through the engine at the same revs before and after moding. of course you will alter "something" and you feel the difference as you probably screwed the factory settings which is a compromise so the engine works well in all revs and all throttle positions. it looks like this airbox mod is just time consuming money wasting and probably components risking and you shoul go better for replacing something else like the rear brake to make it work :)
Click to expand...

Have you actually checked the dyno results I suggested. FYI the dyno was the same (southerncross). I am pretty sure RSVTWIN's bike is pretty much the same as mine, only difference is the airbox conversion and mine's got the inlet airducs from the earlier mille. Go on, explain me the scince behind these results...
 
The Lone Ranger said:
If the engines used up the air thats in the airbox and is waiting for air to rush into the airbox to use then its not going to be able to burn as much fuel.
Make the airbox bigger then it has a little bit more air to use and then can burn a little more fuel, giving a slight increase in HP over the standard airbox.
A cylinder is NEVER filled to full atmospheric pressure even without an airbox and just bare velocity stacks because in the given time that the intake valve is open and the piston is drawing air in the air cant move in and fill the cylinder fast enough.
Click to expand...

exactly. and imagine it at 10500 RPMs - (now theoretically) like 80 times per second a volume of 0.465 litres of air which is over 35 litres of air per second per cylinder so 70 liters/s.
how big is the airbox? cca 8 liters and you enlarge it to 12 maybe? so for how long can you feel the difference if you go from 35 liters per second (5000 RPMs) to 70 liters/s at (10000 RPM). i gues for a really short time period. i know it can differ in real life so you tell me what you get with this mod? are you quicker on track or are you able to get it up on 3rd gar just by turning gas?
 
sergi75 said:
Have you actually checked the dyno results I suggested. FYI the dyno was the same (southerncross). I am pretty sure RSVTWIN's bike is pretty much the same as mine, only difference is the airbox conversion and mine's got the inlet airducs from the earlier mille. Go on, explain me the scince behind these results...
Click to expand...

still searching. it is not easy as i do not know what words to look for to be able to narrow the search
 
theruck said:
exactly. and imagine it at 10500 RPMs - (now theoretically) like 80 times per second a volume of 0.465 litres of air which is over 35 litres of air per second per cylinder so 70 liters/s.
how big is the airbox? cca 8 liters and you enlarge it to 12 maybe? so for how long can you feel the difference if you go from 35 liters per second (5000 RPMs) to 70 liters/s at (10000 RPM). i gues for a really short time period. i know it can differ in real life so you tell me what you get with this mod? are you quicker on track or are you able to get it up on 3rd gar just by turning gas?
Click to expand...

Ive got some questions for you-
How quick do these bikes rev between 5000rpm and 10000rpm under load?
How much airflow are you getting into the airbox?
If you rev under load from 5000rpm to 10000rpm and hold it how long does it take for the airbox pressure to stabilize?
 
My 2 penneth, ive run renegade on both my Aprilia,s, when i had it fitted on my old 02 ill be honest it never made a **** of difference to it, just more induction noise, but then it was running on the original chip and a remus exhaust, the 2001 i have now has a renegade airbox, renegade racing high level exhaust system and a chip out of one of renegades race bikes which instead of hittin the rev limiter at 10500 it now limits out at 11500, it is alot quicker than my old 02 with far more mid range, top speed exactly the same 166 running the same gearing and is pushing 138bhp at the rear on the dyno at Southerncross, so in my opinion unless you get airbox, exhausts and a custom chip the airbox alone make no noticable change, the induction noise does however make your mind think your breaking the sound barrier
 
as i said
the first one: Renegade airbox kit, earlier model collector box, Dr Rossi chip, yoshi can.
so after you do not buy anything to your family on christmas you do a cheap airbox mod to get 2 BHP with all this expensive stuff...

and the other one: RED is standard de-baffled can... BLUE is Aprilia Ti race can

what these results are saying is that if you buy a can you need to alter the intake/air flow as yoi have altered the exhausts flow and probably much more with the chips.

has anyone tested on a factory thus not chipped nor exhaust change machine?
 
The Lone Ranger said:
Ive got some questions for you-
How quick do these bikes rev between 5000rpm and 10000rpm under load

How much airflow are you getting into the airbox??
Click to expand...
that is what i am asking! how much you gain with this airbox mod?
The Lone Ranger said:
If you rev under load from 5000rpm to 10000rpm and hold it how long does it take for the airbox pressure to stabilize?
Click to expand...

its all peanuts as the volume of airbox is so small in comparison to the volume of air which flows through the engine
 
little1uk said:
My 2 penneth, ive run renegade on both my Aprilia,s, when i had it fitted on my old 02 ill be honest it never made a **** of difference to it, just more induction noise, but then it was running on the original chip and a remus exhaust, the 2001 i have now has a renegade airbox, renegade racing high level exhaust system and a chip out of one of renegades race bikes which instead of hittin the rev limiter at 10500 it now limits out at 11500, it is alot quicker than my old 02 with far more mid range, top speed exactly the same 166 running the same gearing and is pushing 138bhp at the rear on the dyno at Southerncross, so in my opinion unless you get airbox, exhausts and a custom chip the airbox alone make no noticable change, the induction noise does however make your mind think your breaking the sound barrier
Click to expand...

thank you man! that was exactly what i was thinking/talking about (or wanted to hear? :) )
 
theruck said:
thank you man! that was exactly what i was thinking/talking about (or wanted to hear? :) )
Click to expand...


but are you going to do the mod or have you talked yourself out of it....

we wouldnt bother witha mod unless it gives results?.....be brave go and do it
 
redratbike said:
but are you going to do the mod or have you talked yourself out of it....

we wouldnt bother witha mod unless it gives results?.....be brave go and do it
Click to expand...
it is winter so i wanted to do some mods but then i realised that this mod would not help me at all (maybe the sound would be better but maybe i would not like it) so i wanted to discuss it first and see if i can find somebody whom this mod helped but looks like it is not worth the time for me as i still have original exhaust and chip
 
theruck said:
as i said
the first one: Renegade airbox kit, earlier model collector box, Dr Rossi chip, yoshi can.
so after you do not buy anything to your family on christmas you do a cheap airbox mod to get 2 BHP with all this expensive stuff...

and the other one: RED is standard de-baffled can... BLUE is Aprilia Ti race can

what these results are saying is that if you buy a can you need to alter the intake/air flow as yoi have altered the exhausts flow and probably much more with the chips.

has anyone tested on a factory thus not chipped nor exhaust change machine?
Click to expand...

It is more than 2bhp. Pls have a look the bhp difference on the midrange and count again. Also, have a look at both torque figures.
 
STD says 117,9 and 9,8
OPEN says 119,1 and 9,5
anyway the gain in between 6500 and 7500 is obvious but also much worse in 4500-6000 so the standard curve looks the best option to me.
 
theruck said:
STD says 117,9 and 9,8
OPEN says 119,1 and 9,5
anyway the gain in between 6500 and 7500 is obvious but also much worse in 4500-6000 so the standard curve looks the best option to me.
Click to expand...

Sorry mate but you have not look at this correctly. Check carefully and you will see that at no mine's got more power at any rev. Note that the escale used is slightly different and that may have lead you to confusion. Anyway, you seem to be on denial so...which mod are you going to go for?
 

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