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badger mod question (yes again)

theruck

theruck

Joined May 2009
472 Posts | 0+
Slovakia
Looking at the badger mod pictures i have a question. why do you seal the KN filter on the top to make it higher and afterwards deal with the airbox lid sealing?

Dsc01196.jpg


can't this be meade more efficiently like this?
Dsc01196.jpg


maybe i am missing the whole idea behind this mod so can somebody explain please?
 
theruck said:
Looking at the badger mod pictures i have a question. why do you seal the KN filter on the top to make it higher and afterwards deal with the airbox lid sealing?

Dsc01196.jpg


can't this be meade more efficiently like this?
Dsc01196.jpg


maybe i am missing the whole idea behind this mod so can somebody explain please?
Click to expand...

Hi

Maybe I am wrong on this one, however it was used not only to seal the filter but also to act as a 'WEDGE' to keep the filter pressed firmly down goven that there is no more OEM airbox lid.

Otherwsie you have nothing to hold it in place, hope this helps :thumbup

Cheers Pete
 
ok now i understand it a little bit more. so there is another question: why do you remove the whole airbox cover (obviously to get the extra space for air under the tank) and you do not make some holes or windows to the original cover and put a filter on it?
is it because of the sound?
 
Pete is spot on, the filter is not high enough, so you need to add some height to it so the underside of the tank holds it in place, also the fact you are not using the airbox lid means the top of the filter would be open to allowing crap into the engine, simple as that, any more questions ask away.
 
Last edited:
theruck said:
i mean why not to do it like this?
airbox.jpg
Click to expand...

Because the air is coming through the underside of the OEM box, through the front ducts there would be no great channelling of the air over the top side of the airbox to make that a great idea:biggrin
 
Also the main reason for the mod is the standard airbox is to small, the whole idea is to give greater volume to the airbox.

That idea would be drawing hot air from above the engine, whereas the air coming though the front ducts is colder and denser air, also the air coming in through the ducts would then be going back out through the filter in the wrong direction.

The air coming through the ducts would not be filtered either.

So the idea gets a total of nil points:doug
 
Last edited:
Badger said:
Also the main reason for the mod is the standard airbox is to small, the whole idea is to give greater volume to the airbox.
Click to expand...

that is clear now and my last picture does not deny it

Badger said:
That idea would be drawing hot air from above the engine, whereas the air coming though the front ducts is colder and denser air, also the air coming in through the ducts would then be going back out through the filter in the wrong direction.
Click to expand...
exactly the same as you do the "ordinary" mod

Badger said:
The air coming through the ducts would not be filtered either.

So the idea gets a total of nil points:doug
Click to expand...

which duct?

the only concern i can think of is the air pressure in the airbox. no air would be going wrong direction as the engine sucks it on one side there is no physical reason to make the air go through the top filter to come out. and if you say so that would mean that your tank is jumping to your balls as you ride with your mod
do not know if temperature would make a big difference as you drive and the undertank is not sealed
 
Last edited:
To clarify, the mod allows a greater volume of filtered air for the engine to draw on.

The air comes in through the air ducts at the front into the airbox, the air coming in from the front will also be pressurised as it is forced air, it will also be colder and denser air than if you take it from around the engine area once it is warmed.

The air enters via the ducts and passes through the filter, once through the filter it is in the larger volume sealed airbox mod for the engine to draw on, it really is a simple as that.

If you stick the filter in the top of the lid you then don't have a sealed airbox, i think you need to look at where the air intakes are to see what we are talking about, as what you are contemplating is nonsensical TBH.

You seem to be making it more complicated than it actually is:confused

This mod is on many a bike and it works as well as being cheap to do:thumbup
 
Badger said:
To clarify, the mod allows a greater volume of filtered air for the engine to draw on.
Click to expand...
how is that possible by only enlarging the airbox?
from physics if you want to make the througput higher you have to make the intake duct in larger diameter (as it seems to be the main limiter of the air througput performance) or increase the pressure. your mod does the oposite and you say it works.

ok you have larger amount of air in the box if you build your mod but how do you get more air/time if you do not alter the intake duct?

or what exactly is on the original airbox the limiting factor for the engine not to be able to breathe correctly?

it looks like your airbox mod is working only because you get somewhere false air which comes to the motor unfiltered anyway...
or maybe your mod just lowers the under pressure in the airbox so the engine behaves differently but i still really wonder what should anynone gain using this mod
 
Last edited:
No unfiltered air will reach the engine because this mod uses a rubber seal to seal the airbox to the underside of the tank. RSV Mille's suffer from an inadequate airbox volume hence the reason for opening the airbox up. The restriction is not the ability to draw in air through the intakes, it's the actual volume of air available within the airbox that's at fault. By increasing the effective sealed space under the tank and hence the volume of air, the engine will breath better.
 
PB291883.jpg

:devious

This is another way of doing it you will still get the air from the outside but will also draw extra air from under the tank and not end up with any unfiltered air to the injectors.:thumbup

You can also change the rubber for a more direct flow type which has less restrictions in it not the one in the photo the other type has larger bores and belmouths so as not to restrict flow.

Just another method which is what I had before spending out on a Hooked filter assembly:doug
 
theruck said:
how is that possible by only enlarging the airbox?
from physics if you want to make the througput higher you have to make the intake duct in larger diameter (as it seems to be the main limiter of the air througput performance) or increase the pressure. your mod does the oposite and you say it works.

ok you have larger amount of air in the box if you build your mod but how do you get more air/time if you do not alter the intake duct?

or what exactly is on the original airbox the limiting factor for the engine not to be able to breathe correctly?

it looks like your airbox mod is working only because you get somewhere false air which comes to the motor unfiltered anyway...
or maybe your mod just lowers the under pressure in the airbox so the engine behaves differently but i still really wonder what should anynone gain using this mod
Click to expand...

Under hard acceleration the engine empties the airbox quicker than the air coming in can fill it.
If you make the airbox bigger then it will take slightly longer to empty the bigger airbox and give a little bit more time for the incoming air to catch up, giving you slightly harder acceleration
 
theruck said:
how is that possible by only enlarging the airbox?
from physics if you want to make the througput higher you have to make the intake duct in larger diameter (as it seems to be the main limiter of the air througput performance) or increase the pressure. your mod does the oposite and you say it works.

ok you have larger amount of air in the box if you build your mod but how do you get more air/time if you do not alter the intake duct?

or what exactly is on the original airbox the limiting factor for the engine not to be able to breathe correctly?

it looks like your airbox mod is working only because you get somewhere false air which comes to the motor unfiltered anyway...
or maybe your mod just lowers the under pressure in the airbox so the engine behaves differently but i still really wonder what should anynone gain using this mod
Click to expand...

I suppose these guys

http://www.ironbite.de/html/airboxring_2001-2003tuono.html

and these guys

http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=945

must be wrong too.

I have been riding these things since 1999 and done more miles than most on them, i know what works and what does not work, you will please yourself what you do, my bike with that mod did 18k miles, anyone that has ridden with me knows it will be tested.

I have a similar mod on my 06 Factory and my 04 Factory track bike, the 04 produces 138bhp at the rear, these mods work.

Anyway, you do as you please as i have seen enough airbox threads to last me a lifetime:eatcorn
 
i did not tell you can not feel the difference anyway i really doubt that this will bring you any extra horse power as it is complete ********.
maybe these guys are only trying to sell something you guys want to believe - cheap mod to get more power.
you can ask the chinese guys selling iphone clones if they are wrong or they sell iphones for quarter the price.

anyway still nobody explained to me how a bigger airbox can produce more power on the engine without modifying the air throughput which these mods obviously do not do.

do not mean to be offensive i am just sceptic from what i have seen. anybody here measured it on a brake how much horsepower you get with these mods? altering the graph a bit is not the same as getting more power out of the engine and if youa re talking about horsepower just say what was the maximum before and after (and by only modifying the airbox)
 
The Lone Ranger said:
Under hard acceleration the engine empties the airbox quicker than the air coming in can fill it.
If you make the airbox bigger then it will take slightly longer to empty the bigger airbox and give a little bit more time for the incoming air to catch up, giving you slightly harder acceleration
Click to expand...

this would make sense if the airbox was switching from empty to non empty. but the air flows there so i would say you can feel the harder acceleration in some situations but still no extra bhp to catch.
if the theory behind this mod was right then you take a 125 ccm 4t china scooter you put a 20liter airbox on it and you get 25 bhp out of it
 
theruck said:
i did not tell you can not feel the difference anyway i really doubt that this will bring you any extra horse power as it is complete ********.
maybe these guys are only trying to sell something you guys want to believe - cheap mod to get more power.
you can ask the chinese guys selling iphone clones if they are wrong or they sell iphones for quarter the price.

anyway still nobody explained to me how a bigger airbox can produce more power on the engine without modifying the air throughput which these mods obviously do not do.

do not mean to be offensive i am just sceptic from what i have seen. anybody here measured it on a brake how much horsepower you get with these mods? altering the graph a bit is not the same as getting more power out of the engine and if youa re talking about horsepower just say what was the maximum before and after (and by only modifying the airbox)
Click to expand...

I don't know the theory but there are several dyno test posted on this site. Check the ones I posted (mine's got a renegade airbox conversion) against...lets say some dyno posted by RSVTWIN where his bike's airbox is original. Look for difference in BHP throghout the revs not only max BHP.

PS. You seem to be making lots of friends here...don't get me wrong, I think is good there is someone willing to challenge everyone else :thumbup
 
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