Handing, what handling?

I got a set of Diablo Rosso's to throw on it. I will be honest, I went with the 190/50 option on the rear. Maybe next time I'll try a 180. I should think the smaller profile makes it more twitchy? and gives a smaller footprint.
I've been looking at the air gap data for the front forks, and have been thinking a 95mm gap would be the best of both worlds giving that its roughly middle of the range, has anyone else played with different levels in the Ohlins forks.

I can't help but say the logic behind fitting lighter tyres as you have light wheels is crazy!
A 160 section rear tyre is lighter than a 180, but you wouldn't run that!

Fit the right size tyre for your wheel, and most tyre manufacturers say a 6" wheel should have a 190 tyre. If weight really bothers you then buy Michelin Pilot Pure, or cut out lager for a month!
Your tyres are the only thing keeping you on the road and a 190/55 has a bigger footprint when it's leant over.
If you don't carry big lean (or are light yourself) then go for a 180, but I had no confidence with the 180 and did in fact start to ride off the edge....
I'm no Rossi (not even a club racer) but I do carry quite a fair amount of lean sometimes and am partial to the odd track day.

jon_melson
I can't help but say the logic behind fitting lighter tyres as you have light wheels is crazy!
A 160 section rear tyre is lighter than a 180, but you wouldn't run that!

i personally dont have any real preference to the size, obviously your not going to go and fit a 160 section, these arent 250's! just stating the fact that from brand new, aprilia supplied the oz wheels with a 180 section and their reason at that time was to aid the weight drop between the regular mille and the mille 'r'. we all know the benefits of lighter wheels to general handling, for most of us normal blokes riding on the roads it will never make a ***** worth of difference, but the 'r' was aimed at more track focused buyers and was supplied equipped as such.

Ninja, I am very sceptical of this. Why would Aprilia fit a 190 on the RSV but a 180 on the R?
I can understand that it helps the weight saving, but it's flawed.
There must be a reason they put a 190 on the standard bike- putting a 180 on to save weight (at the expense of grip) is ludicrous. But they're Italian and into marketing, so any way of justifying buying an 'R' over a regular Mille would've been considered.
Like I said, fitting a 160 would save even more weight and allow the bike to turn even quicker- but it is not suitable for a 210kg, 130bhp bike.
And would be dangerous on the 6" rim.
I'm not arguing for the sake of it- when I bought my RSV I had Dunlop D209 GP Racers fitted on the day I collected it, with a 180/55 rear. I thought all was fine until I went to Brands Hatch and ran out of edge grip at Druids.
Tyre over heating and I was going off the edge, with the back 'walking'. I couldn't get the power on until I'd stood it up.
I got a 190/55 fitted the next time and had no problems at all. This wasn't 'in my head' as a close friend of mine who was a successful club racer in the late 90's swore by 180's and I believed him 100%.
Wasn't until I had these problems, felt the bike moving and then saw the tyre that I knew this was wrong.

At the next bike show I went to I spoke to Dunlop and Pirelli reps- both said 190 for a 6" rim, or even a 200.
California superbike school have been known to use 190's on their R6's, too, and they only have 5.5" rears.

A 180 is fine for on the road and you may well indeed prefer the 'lighter' feeling and nimbleness, but if you ride hard or on track you should really fit the appropriate tyre- a 190.

Jon,

Agree with you 100%. I have ran out of edge grip using a 180 on the road. However sliding the rear is also fun :devious

Plus the weight saving of a 180 over 190 with modern rubber will be only a couple of grammes. If you can tell the difference in this weight saving you should be proper racing.

i agree with you both that it makes no sense and that the weight drop will be minimal between the 2 tyres, i just know thats how they supplied them from new and at the time that was the given reason. ive not ridden my mille with a 190 on as it had a 180 when i bought it. im not overly keen on the turn in characteristics of the bike, it seems to 'fall' in rather then be nice and controlled and so is bloody awful at slow speed turns ie mini roundabouts etc, gbut once im up to speed and can be a little more aggresive ive loved it. only on the roads though, ive not had a chance for a trackday on this one yet so i may well find the edge grip issue aswell when i get to snetterton at somepoint!

Diablo Rosso Corsa or Metzeler M5? I'm really a Metzeler man, but would like the best on the market.

no problems with side grip for me with a 180 on road or track, even fitted a 180 to my MVf41000 and it has helped turn in no end, no problem with grip either, the MilleR came with a 180 as standard.

I use a 180 all the time without issues.

Now you cant say that a 180 lacks edge grip from these pics of mine







My tuppence worth of my experiences:thumbup

Bing-Bong said:

I got a set of Diablo Rosso's to throw on it. I will be honest, I went with the 190/50 option on the rear. Maybe next time I'll try a 180. I should think the smaller profile makes it more twitchy? and gives a smaller footprint.
I've been looking at the air gap data for the front forks, and have been thinking a 95mm gap would be the best of both worlds giving that its roughly middle of the range, has anyone else played with different levels in the Ohlins forks.

Click to expand...

What to do is go with your 95mm and tie a zip tie to the bottom of the fork and go out and ride it pretty hard, see what travel you have left below the zip tie.

You want to aim for 10mm approx, if it is less unscrew the fork top and put another bit of oil in, if it is more then take some oil out and go for a ride again and see what you get, keep doing this till you get the correct travel below the zip tie.

Be meticulous in the amounts of oil and use the air gap method to fill the forks, not the amount of oil.

I use 5wt motorex for mine.

You must make sure the head bearings are good as this will have a dramatic effect on the handling, also the dogbone bearings and rear suspension linkage must be good.

Wheel bearings also, another thing to check is that your damper is pivoting on the rose joints or this will give serious handling issues also.

I have done over 60k miles on Milles and a good few track miles to and have been there with it all over the 12 years i have been riding Milles.

Raise the rear before you lower the front if you need to speed up the turn in, but i have a feeling you have just slowed the steering by putting on a 190/50, you have lowered the back of the bike slightly with that profile.
So just raise the rear to get the balance back again.

You sound pretty methodical so just do it one at a time and log the outcome:thumbup

Arryace said:

i have aslo run sports tyres and sports touring and grip wise there is no difference actualy there is a difference the sports touring tyres are confident from the word go.

i'm running Avon Storm's and get over 5k from the pair and have done a track day on them and they coped with that also.

Click to expand...

I'm also running Avon Storm's as they were the ones that came on the bike and have loads of life left, although one of my mates keeps telling me to take them off and get full on sports tyres. I find them fine, although because now Ive been told theyre not the right tyre for the bike I am a little cautious at times.

I've a bit more copnfidence now that Ive seen someone else is running them.

badger said:

What to do is go with your 95mm and tie a zip tie to the bottom of the fork and go out and ride it pretty hard, see what travel you have left below the zip tie.

You want to aim for 10mm approx, if it is less unscrew the fork top and put another bit of oil in, if it is more then take some oil out and go for a ride again and see what you get, keep doing this till you get the correct travel below the zip tie.

Be meticulous in the amounts of oil and use the air gap method to fill the forks, not the amount of oil.

I use 5wt motorex for mine.

You must make sure the head bearings are good as this will have a dramatic effect on the handling, also the dogbone bearings and rear suspension linkage must be good.

Wheel bearings also, another thing to check is that your damper is pivoting on the rose joints or this will give serious handling issues also.

I have done over 60k miles on Milles and a good few track miles to and have been there with it all over the 12 years i have been riding Milles.

Raise the rear before you lower the front if you need to speed up the turn in, but i have a feeling you have just slowed the steering by putting on a 190/50, you have lowered the back of the bike slightly with that profile.
So just raise the rear to get the balance back again.

You sound pretty methodical so just do it one at a time and log the outcome:thumbup

Click to expand...

The front forks only had three rings showing, so I'm figuring putting it back to four and the 190/50 will retain the same turn in as I had with the 190/55 and three rings.

Some good comments here, definitely gives me food for thought. I'm still waiting for the return of the bike after tyre fitment and the fork oil and seal change. I want to see how much difference that has made first.

Popped round the mechanics today, and next to the fact that the forks had next to no oil in them, the head bearings were wound so tight that once the weight was off the forks it was obvious. they didn't want to stray from staight ahead.

And this is a bike from a dealer. Go figure. The mechanic said that it was down right dangerous.

being a short-arse myself (1.73 meters) when i bought my mille i wanted it to be lower but didn't want to lose the steering. so i left it high on the rear (it was at max) then pulled the legs all the way up (i think it's 6 lines showing, can't remember right now). i set-up my suspension exactly for me and my riding style and it's a hell of a bike. i also have a 190/55 on the back. so quick to steer and so responsive...

Right folks,

Many thanks for your replies, they are most appreciated. Here's an update on the story so far. The list of what I have done to this bike is growing; I have listed what the bike was set at first to give you an idea how far out it was.

FRONT
Forks feel spongy,only 600ml oil shared between them (Forks stripped, cleaned and rebuilt with new seals, 10w oil and a 95mm air gap)
3 rings showing (changed to 4)
Preload set to maximum ( changed to 8 turns, giving 30mm sag with me onboard)
Steering damper at maximum setting (changed to 10 clicks from fully in)
Steering head bearings shot (replaced with Koyo roller bearings)
All settings returned to standard.
Brake fluid looking tired (fluid changed)

REAR
No preload (preload added to give 25mm sag with me aboard)
Shock length 310mm (ride hieght adjusted to give 321mm shock length)
Rear brake inoperative (fluid changed, now works well)
All settings returned to standard

Plus, on top of this I have bled the clutch and replaced the tyres with Pirelli Diablo Rosso's (190/50 rear).

Now all I have to do is ride the bloody thing to evaluate where I go from here. Rode it saturday and the vague wishy washy feeling was still there, certainly didn't give confidence, although was 200% better than before. That was before I adjusted the rear ride hieght, also the bearings loosened over the 100 miles or so, so the bike deteriated over the course of the day. The head bearings are re-adjusted now. This was never going to be a really informative ride as was scrubbing the tyres also.

There is one point that I was unsure of that the manual is unclear on. Is the rear shock length measured with the shock off the bike unloaded or fitted with the weight of the bike on it.

I will get there, if the feeling persists after all these changes then it is down to tyre pressures. I'm running 33/36 at the mo, as per the manual, but am tempted to try 36/42 or any combination inbetween. Certainly makes ownership fun. I used to go lary on a Z900 fitted with Avon Roadrunners back in the day, those of you who are old enough to remember them will know what I'm on about.

way too much weight over the front, reduce rear ride height or go back to 3 rings showing

badger said:

way too much weight over the front, reduce rear ride height or go back to 3 rings showing

Click to expand...

Actually got to ride it the other day, it did feel very much up on it's toes, so I've reduced the rear shock length to 315mm via the ride height adjuster. It sits much better on its stand and will be riding it later today.
It did feel so much better though, the vague steering and wandering sensation had all but gone, steering damper felt to intrusive so backed it out to 15 clicks now.