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Finding neutral ???????????????????

M

Matt Baxter

Just fited my mpl clutch slave cylinder this morning and it has made the clutch feel a fair bit lighter
but its still hard to get it back in to neutral but as my bike is an 06 model I thought it has the "better" jet is that right?

Is there anything else I could try?

Cheers
Matt
 
If you were having neutral problems before, then the MPL or similar will only make them worse.

By fitting a larger dia bore slave you are DECREASING the available travel at the pushrod,make sure you have bled the system properly.

The main benefit of the MPL's are to decrease the force needed at the lever (for wimps and girls mainly :devious) although the seals MAY be less prone to leakage.

Always a trade off between effort & travel
 
IanG said:
If you were having neutral problems before, then the MPL or similar will only make them worse.

By fitting a larger dia bore slave you are DECREASING the available travel at the pushrod,make sure you have bled the system properly.

The main benefit of the MPL's are to decrease the force needed at the lever (for wimps and girls mainly :devious) although the seals MAY be less prone to leakage.

Always a trade off between effort & travel
Click to expand...

AWESOME :rant lol

it was a little bit easier to get neutral with the aprilia slave, its deffo lighter with the mpl I have bleed it a few times normal and reverse ways and also bleed the master cylinder and its still impossible to get neutral from 1st

Its only done 2k miles oh and its got stubby leavers so I guss thats not gunna help but they look soooooo much better:biggrin


Cheers for the help so far, I might just order the "better" jet anyway as it only a few pence
 
When i bleed my clutch i force bleed it
I also pump the lever a few times and hold it onto the bar overnight

I have the larger jet in mine but standard slave & radial m/c off the 04 on models
light as a feather & straight into neutral, just after 5k the fluid started to discolour
 
Does this make me a wimp AND a girl?

Obviously does then!

I didn't really find much improvement with my MPL, although I'm sure I bled it properly?

Only thing that goes over in my little brain is that when I fitted new copper washers they were marginally thicker than the ones which came off.
I'm convinced this is some way responsible for the lack of improvement!
 
jon_melson said:
Does this make me a wimp AND a girl?

Obviously does then!

I didn't really find much improvement with my MPL, although I'm sure I bled it properly?

Only thing that goes over in my little brain is that when I fitted new copper washers they were marginally thicker than the ones which came off.
I'm convinced this is some way responsible for the lack of improvement!
Click to expand...

Keh ? :dunno

Banjo washers?

You're avving a giraffe mate, for some reason the plates are dragging and the decreased throw of the larger dia slave are not separating them properly. The smaller oil jet just throws less oil at the plates,hopefully allowing them to disengage easier.
 
It's only a theory!

Ok, the banjo bolt is hollow and has a hole in it which allows fluid from the hose to enter it and then come out of the bottom, into the caliper.

So... if the copper washer was too thick it'd 'lift' the hole in the bolt higher compared to the banjo on the hose....

...which could effectively make the area of the hole smaller. Smaller hole requires more pressure for the volume of fluid to pass through, negating the benefit of the different bore in the slave.

So in short, has my overly thick washer closed the hole up a bit making the lever just as hard to squeeze?

It's only a theory!!!!
 
jon_melson said:
It's only a theory!

Ok, the banjo bolt is hollow and has a hole in it which allows fluid from the hose to enter it and then come out of the bottom, into the caliper.

So... if the copper washer was too thick it'd 'lift' the hole in the bolt higher compared to the banjo on the hose....

...which could effectively make the area of the hole smaller. Smaller hole requires more pressure for the volume of fluid to pass through, negating the benefit of the different bore in the slave.

So in short, has my overly thick washer closed the hole up a bit making the lever just as hard to squeeze?

It's only a theory!!!!
Click to expand...

pressure does not need a big hole to travel through - flow rate does :devious
 
i force bleed mine but still need to back off the nipple on the master cylinder ,back it off ,very slowly pull lever and watch air come out nip nipple back up before letting lever go back and repeat as necessary ..

ps mask all surrounding area's with rags to catch excess fluid and then wash of when done.. sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs mate just telling what i have to do .:thumbup
 
kawasakiinit said:
i force bleed mine but still need to back off the nipple on the master cylinder ,back it off ,very slowly pull lever and watch air come out nip nipple back up before letting lever go back and repeat as necessary ..

ps mask all surrounding area's with rags to catch excess fluid and then wash of when done.. sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs mate just telling what i have to do .:thumbup
Click to expand...

Cheers will give it another go at the w/end

lol yeah I had to wash it down after covering the side in brake fluid:rant
 
kawasakiinit said:
i force bleed mine but still need to back off the nipple on the master cylinder ,back it off ,very slowly pull lever and watch air come out nip nipple back up before letting lever go back and repeat as necessary ..
Click to expand...

I didn't realise the clutch master cylinder had a bleed nipple?
Is this only on the 04+ bikes as I couldn't see anything obvious on my 03 bike.


With regard to Bernoulli's principle, I didn't read it all but my understanding is thus;

If 5cc of brake fluid is being displaced from the master cylinder into the slave to operate the push rod, a smaller hole means the fluid needs a greater pressure to achieve the flow rate.

Like a hose pipe- if you're filling up a swimming pool a big hose pipe is ideal and the water can fall out the end. If you use a smaller hose the water needs a higher pressure to keep the same flow rate.

Think waterfall versus jet washer!

I thought that if I'd covered the hole in the banjo bolt slightly it'd mean the fuild would require greater pressure to the same flow rate as if the hole was uncovered....

..and this would equate to increased resistance at the lever as we squeeze the fluid through this smaller hole?

I did say it's only a theory! The copper washer I used is probably 1mm thicker at most!
 
jon_melson said:
I didn't realise the clutch master cylinder had a bleed nipple?
Is this only on the 04+ bikes as I couldn't see anything obvious on my 03 bike.


With regard to Bernoulli's principle, I didn't read it all but my understanding is thus;

If 5cc of brake fluid is being displaced from the master cylinder into the slave to operate the push rod, a smaller hole means the fluid needs a greater pressure to achieve the flow rate.

Like a hose pipe- if you're filling up a swimming pool a big hose pipe is ideal and the water can fall out the end. If you use a smaller hose the water needs a higher pressure to keep the same flow rate.

Think waterfall versus jet washer!

I thought that if I'd covered the hole in the banjo bolt slightly it'd mean the fuild would require greater pressure to the same flow rate as if the hole was uncovered....

..and this would equate to increased resistance at the lever as we squeeze the fluid through this smaller hole?

I did say it's only a theory! The copper washer I used is probably 1mm thicker at most!
Click to expand...


not sure about older model mate all i know is mine has:dunno
 
I have an 05 with the better jet and have tried all the tips on here for bleeding the damn thing, and different oils, but it still wont go into nuetral, it's just a trackbike so I live with it, but if it was my road bike I would set fire to bloody thing.
 
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