Having problem with clutch slipping so thought I'd try m6 washer mod... but I can't see how it helps. it doesn't add any extra tension to the springs as the original large washer mounts flush to the clutch housing in the same position as before and the spring stays the same length so adding the M6 washer just shortens the bolt...... or am I missing something? :dunno
Joined May 2008
379 Posts | 0+
Norfolk
the washer goes between the current washer and the bolt head, so when the bolt is fully done up the spring gets compressed more
good luck with sorting the clutch slip, ive just exhausted every single option and had to buy a new set of plates damned clutch slip!
good luck with sorting the clutch slip, ive just exhausted every single option and had to buy a new set of plates damned clutch slip!
Thats where i put the washer but it doesn't put any more pre-tension on the spring, when the bolt is tightened it seats the original washer on the housing, only thing it does is make the bolt head stand further out.
If you measure how far original washer is tightened down its exactly the same with or without M6 washer.
the only way I can see to put more pre-tension on is stiffer springs or machine some thicker washers with a recess where they mount on the housing to press the springs down further. which will be pointless if my plates are shagged anyway
So it looks like new plates for me aswell.
If you measure how far original washer is tightened down its exactly the same with or without M6 washer.
the only way I can see to put more pre-tension on is stiffer springs or machine some thicker washers with a recess where they mount on the housing to press the springs down further. which will be pointless if my plates are shagged anyway
So it looks like new plates for me aswell.
I might be missing something?...but from what I can see
The washers don't get jammed, they hold the springs in place in the spring holder plate but the washers actually tighten on to the housing/clutch hub. when you use the clutch it pushes the spring holder plate into the springs.
as far as i'm aware the washers don't move once tightened, so putting a M6 washer behind is pointless...:dunno
or I'm being proper stoopid:stupid
The washers don't get jammed, they hold the springs in place in the spring holder plate but the washers actually tighten on to the housing/clutch hub. when you use the clutch it pushes the spring holder plate into the springs.
as far as i'm aware the washers don't move once tightened, so putting a M6 washer behind is pointless...:dunno
or I'm being proper stoopid:stupid
if you have the clutch apart, measure the thickness of the plates and check they are within tolerance, then measure the spring legth and see if they are as well.
If the plates are ok, then just roughen them up with some emery cloth or coarse wet and dry paper. If the springs are nearly at the end of their tolerance, then the washer mod would work, but if they are past it, then better off getting new springs, or they will shag your plates up in no time.
i used to find i could get away with 2 sets of springs to one set of plates on the jap bikes when couriering, as long as i caught them early enough.
If the plates are ok, then just roughen them up with some emery cloth or coarse wet and dry paper. If the springs are nearly at the end of their tolerance, then the washer mod would work, but if they are past it, then better off getting new springs, or they will shag your plates up in no time.
i used to find i could get away with 2 sets of springs to one set of plates on the jap bikes when couriering, as long as i caught them early enough.
Wolf, now you've got clutch apart, fit one bolt with and one without extra washer and you'll notice only thing that happens is bolt head will stand proud with extra washer and the original washer doesnt mount any further down so the spring length stays the same.
try it with a standard M6 washer and not a body washer so you can measure the position of original spring washer.
Also the washer your using looks a bit big to me, try operating the clutch with cover off and make sure the spring plate doesn't catch when its moving
try it with a standard M6 washer and not a body washer so you can measure the position of original spring washer.
Also the washer your using looks a bit big to me, try operating the clutch with cover off and make sure the spring plate doesn't catch when its moving
If you look at pic, you can see when tightened the washer mounts on top of the post (part of the clutch hub) this doesn't move, the spring sits under the washer and seats in the spring plate with tension on. (drive engaged) so putting a washer on top of the original washer puts no extra tension on the spring.
when you operate clutch(disengaging drive) the spring plate moves upwards or out towards you as your looking at it which releases tension on your clutch plates, when you release lever the springs press the spring plate back pushing the plates back together again to give drive but as i see it the extra washer does nowt to add any extra tension
Joined May 2008
379 Posts | 0+
Norfolk
ok here is how i see it, the bolts screw into the clutch basket, which seems to have limited depth threads (try screwing a bolt in without the spring) so i think if you do the bolt up all the way (until you feel resistance from the end of the threads, careful not to break the bolt though) then the bolt done up to that point with a spring and the normal washer on will have less pre-tensioning than a spring with the normal washer + another washer
the washers i used were a little on the giant sized i know, they did fit though and did not impede movement of the plate (i too thought they were too big but when tried they still allowed the same amount of movement as without) i only used them for a while before deciding to just get new springs, alas it seems the plates themselves are the true cause though so im fitting a barnett kit when it arrives in the post
what you said about the function of the plates/springs and clutch in general is correct however the plates are not clamped together until the springs are tensioned, and so if the springs are not tensioned enough reduced friction means the plates can slip, causing the horrible phenomonon we call clutch slip
the washers i used were a little on the giant sized i know, they did fit though and did not impede movement of the plate (i too thought they were too big but when tried they still allowed the same amount of movement as without) i only used them for a while before deciding to just get new springs, alas it seems the plates themselves are the true cause though so im fitting a barnett kit when it arrives in the post
what you said about the function of the plates/springs and clutch in general is correct however the plates are not clamped together until the springs are tensioned, and so if the springs are not tensioned enough reduced friction means the plates can slip, causing the horrible phenomonon we call clutch slip
Thats what I said, when bolts are tightened theres always tension holding plates together, when you operate clutch it moves spring plate outwards which does compress springs more but takes the tension away from the plates.
I haven't wound a bolt down on its own yet as i could see imprint of post on underside of washer, but I'm off to garage now for a smoke and will have a look.
Avin gone through all this though I'm pretty sure my plates are shagged and will be ordering a set and measuring my springs to see if there fooked aswell.:thumbup
Joined May 2008
379 Posts | 0+
Norfolk
sounds just like me lol i hope you can find a good place to get new plates as all the parts places i found had put the price of frictions up to £140 lol ended up getting the barnett kit for £160 which is less than i would of paid for just steels and frictions from a stock place plus i get the barnett springs aswell :thumbup
Fookinell Wolf thats pricey.
Ultimate parts can do steel plates friction plates and springs for £117 delivered and all genuine parts
http://www.ultimateparts.net/shop/basket.php?action=update_item&id=362474&qty=6
I use my local bike shop though, can get me all genuine aprilia parts, sometimes a couple of quid dearer than internet... but support local businesses an all that
Ultimate parts can do steel plates friction plates and springs for £117 delivered and all genuine parts
http://www.ultimateparts.net/shop/basket.php?action=update_item&id=362474&qty=6
I use my local bike shop though, can get me all genuine aprilia parts, sometimes a couple of quid dearer than internet... but support local businesses an all that
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Joined May 2008
379 Posts | 0+
Norfolk
quote from ultimate parts website for the 04-05 rsv parts:
Lined clutch discs 9 pc. AP8106867 £137.53 Add to cart
i guess since the discs magically turned into gold they are worth more now :dunno
already got my barnett kit and went for a short ride today without clutch slip :doug gotta be patient though i dont wanna glaze the plates up riding it brutally :eatcorn still its been ages since i could do a decent power wheelie (the barnett clutch definately has a quicker take up almost popped a wheelie pulling away from a junction at 3000rpm)
happy days :devious
Lined clutch discs 9 pc. AP8106867 £137.53 Add to cart
i guess since the discs magically turned into gold they are worth more now :dunno
already got my barnett kit and went for a short ride today without clutch slip :doug gotta be patient though i dont wanna glaze the plates up riding it brutally :eatcorn still its been ages since i could do a decent power wheelie (the barnett clutch definately has a quicker take up almost popped a wheelie pulling away from a junction at 3000rpm)
happy days :devious
Joined Apr 2009
149 Posts | 0+
Damn, the guy is right !
I did this mod myself, 'cos of the slipping, but I also roughened up the steel plates and reduced the fluid in the reservoir.
All went well at Oulton on tuesday, so a result !
The total clutch stack measured 1mm above min, and the springs were 1mm up too, so it will be time for a new one soon.
Miff
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quote from ultimate parts website for the 04-05 rsv parts:
Lined clutch discs 9 pc. AP8106867 £137.53 Add to cartCant believe difference in price for 04 onwards. makes sense to get barnett kit. Glad its sorted your slip:thumbup.
Ordered genuine clutch for mine but its on feckin back order.
Gonna try what miff did and rough up plates so I can still av a run out this weekend. just have to take it steady:devious
Joined May 2008
379 Posts | 0+
Norfolk
yeah i did get some good results doing that, though it took forever to do i cant say i ever got more than perhaps 100 miles out of them though and that was riding carefully :dunno
if it doesnt work much the first time then dont bother doing it again, take it from someone who wasted alot of time doing that
irate
Joined Apr 2009
149 Posts | 0+
Well, I fitted a Dr Rossi chip and the clutch slip has returned above 9000 rpm :0(
Extra power ? :0) -need to re-dyno to find out
I have now put fresh semi synthetic oil in, new filter, and made three 'proper' washers which DO compress the springs more ( OD to suit std washer, with 13mm ID)
Took it for a quick thrash, and no clutch slip.
I suspect I'm delaying the inevitable replacement clutch, the bike has 27k miles on it !
Miff
Extra power ? :0) -need to re-dyno to find out
I have now put fresh semi synthetic oil in, new filter, and made three 'proper' washers which DO compress the springs more ( OD to suit std washer, with 13mm ID)
Took it for a quick thrash, and no clutch slip.
I suspect I'm delaying the inevitable replacement clutch, the bike has 27k miles on it !
Miff
:thumbup be interesting to see how long it works for?
Good thing is early rsv's the oe clutch's are dirt cheap, but it too me 4 weeks to get one from local shop as italy was on its summer shut down.
I fitted it last night but was too hung over this morning to have a run out, hopefully have a run later?
