Should Aprilia have built a 1200cc V twin sportsbike
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I would probably have bought one instead of the duke. As it was they didn't have a product for me.
I like twins (blonde ones) and the rsv4 does nothing for me. so there was/is nothing.
I think given the small sales the v4 has had that they may be thinking the same thing about now.
The last incarnation of the Rsv was in the top 10 uk sales figures in 2004. Recession hasn't helped new model development either.
I would probably have bought one instead of the duke. As it was they didn't have a product for me.
I like twins (blonde ones) and the rsv4 does nothing for me. so there was/is nothing.
I think given the small sales the v4 has had that they may be thinking the same thing about now.
The last incarnation of the Rsv was in the top 10 uk sales figures in 2004. Recession hasn't helped new model development either.
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Completely agree, I think they lost a lot of potential new buyers when they stopped making twins, I rode the rsv4 and while it is an incredible bike it was just too clinical and soulless,if I get another bike it will probably be a Duke!
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I agree with Shazam, Off the line the bikes are rockets, as standard dont have the top end as the IL4's but honestly, who really needs the top? Handling is sharp and all areas of the bike are spot on. It has been a close shoot out all year between the RSV4 and BMW S1000RR and the V4 pipped it pretty much all the way. That way i think Aprilia got it spot on. Anything over a 1000 is really a tourer and this is proven really by all the bike manufacturers as the main super sports are all 1000 with GXR, CBR, ZX10 R1 when you go above it you go sports tourer so in the case of you would have a 1200 you are wanting to TOUR in which case a goldwing, BMW, ZX12, BUSA etc would be more practical.
Just my pennies worth.
Just my pennies worth.
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It's won all the pizes m8 but ive heard allot about the issuses the bike has and people handing them back after the amazing aprilia after sales help....
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Talkin about big twins being tourers how does the wold superbike winning twin fit into that????????
I am sorely tempted with the new 2011 RC8R, a few mille owners have gone to them due to the lack of a 1200cc Mille on the market, who would not be tempted by this at the price
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Accolades mean very little if no one is buying it. It's too focused to be a sales hit, it should have been a flagship special eddition ala Ducati sp range etc. They need a more mainstream model also that would be a more all rounder.
Plus it has some serious motor issues at least on the earlier models. I would not touch one with more than 10k on the clock with a barge pole. The later versions may be better, we shall see. I saw a guy posting the other day on another forum who's bike has 3k on it and developed serious noises. Aprilia have diagnosed it had seized due to lack of oil and are pointing the finger at the owner yet it is dealer serviced and only had 1 interim service.
The proof though is in Aprilia's bank balance. The Scorze factory has it's workforce being paid for by the government. A scheme called CIG whereby if the unions agree not to strike and a pay cut then the governemt NI scheme pays the workforce at 2/3 of normal wages in return for a 50% working week reduction. If they hadn't done it they would have closed. In the usa the dealers had the v4's on buy back schemes to get them in showrooms, they got most of them back and are stuck with out of date inventory. As a result the CEO walked/got canned.
The EU is pushing italy to change their labor laws currently which would prevent prop ups in the future so they must be worried. Derbi also Piaggio owned is closing the factory lock stock and barrel in Spain. That process is mid flow now and ends in Nov.
Yet Ducati have increased sales by 10% in the uk and 30% worldwide so you can't just blame recessions or prices as they are not cheap. Someone at Aprilia got the strategy wrong. They thought racing success would translate to sales. Wrong on 2 counts.
1. They put a Biaggi on it who is a PR nightmare
2. They have let many customers down with backup and word spread. (not for the first time).Those of us who owned Aprilia's in 04 have been here before. When Aprilia are in financial difficulty your warranty/customer service suffers and it's self perpetuating.
You can read the CIG agreement here if you want to read it yourself. http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/2010/02/articles/it1002049i.htm
Loving that Rc8. Had a good sit on one at the NEC last year.
Accolades mean very little if no one is buying it. It's too focused to be a sales hit, it should have been a flagship special eddition ala Ducati sp range etc. They need a more mainstream model also that would be a more all rounder.
Plus it has some serious motor issues at least on the earlier models. I would not touch one with more than 10k on the clock with a barge pole. The later versions may be better, we shall see. I saw a guy posting the other day on another forum who's bike has 3k on it and developed serious noises. Aprilia have diagnosed it had seized due to lack of oil and are pointing the finger at the owner yet it is dealer serviced and only had 1 interim service.
The proof though is in Aprilia's bank balance. The Scorze factory has it's workforce being paid for by the government. A scheme called CIG whereby if the unions agree not to strike and a pay cut then the governemt NI scheme pays the workforce at 2/3 of normal wages in return for a 50% working week reduction. If they hadn't done it they would have closed. In the usa the dealers had the v4's on buy back schemes to get them in showrooms, they got most of them back and are stuck with out of date inventory. As a result the CEO walked/got canned.
The EU is pushing italy to change their labor laws currently which would prevent prop ups in the future so they must be worried. Derbi also Piaggio owned is closing the factory lock stock and barrel in Spain. That process is mid flow now and ends in Nov.
Yet Ducati have increased sales by 10% in the uk and 30% worldwide so you can't just blame recessions or prices as they are not cheap. Someone at Aprilia got the strategy wrong. They thought racing success would translate to sales. Wrong on 2 counts.
1. They put a Biaggi on it who is a PR nightmare
2. They have let many customers down with backup and word spread. (not for the first time).Those of us who owned Aprilia's in 04 have been here before. When Aprilia are in financial difficulty your warranty/customer service suffers and it's self perpetuating.
You can read the CIG agreement here if you want to read it yourself. http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/2010/02/articles/it1002049i.htm
Loving that Rc8. Had a good sit on one at the NEC last year.
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That all sounds pretty bad Spoonz. Is it the beginning of the end for Aprilia (or at least the big stuff). Is there any chance they will survive the current economic problems in europe/rest of world which look likely to go on for years and not months? I assume they have not been developing a 'more mainstream model' and had all the eggs in the rsv4 basket. Are sales of the non-rsv4 medium to big stuff also very weak? How are Guzzi surviving, is that also out of the tax payer's pocket?
Rob
Rob
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I still think the rc8 looks like a cobbled together kit bike AND I hated it when I road one,(good for tall folk)
Im sticking with the v4, yes a new v2 would have been nice but I do like the v4 and 6.5k miles later its still trouble free.
All new bikes these days seem to be rushed out (my mates BMW is on its second set of cams now)
ck
Im sticking with the v4, yes a new v2 would have been nice but I do like the v4 and 6.5k miles later its still trouble free.
All new bikes these days seem to be rushed out (my mates BMW is on its second set of cams now)
ck
That all sounds pretty bad Spoonz. Is it the beginning of the end for Aprilia (or at least the big stuff). Is there any chance they will survive the current economic problems in europe/rest of world which look likely to go on for years and not months? I assume they have not been developing a 'more mainstream model' and had all the eggs in the rsv4 basket. Are sales of the non-rsv4 medium to big stuff also very weak? How are Guzzi surviving, is that also out of the tax payer's pocket?
Rob
All the time Italy's labor laws are what they are they will survive. They were in effect state run between 2004 and 2006 until they got on their feet with piaggio. Ironically it was the attempt for racing succes that bankrupt them then in the form of the cube.
The V4 tuono may help them sales wise but i don't know how well they are selling. Other than the Tuono what else is there, a Shiver ? That has barely caused a ripple in the bike world.
It's a wake up call just as 2004 was. Not just for Aprilia but for others as well.
When times are tough sales will migrate to more all round models for most people because they need a bike to do everything. It has to be sensibly priced and well built but critical is that you have to back it up big time. Ownership experience is rarely just based on things like looks, speed etc. If it goes pop and your told to sod off you won't come back end of.
Expensive race reps will never sell big (especially in hard times) They are normally a statement of your engineering/racing prowess and not money makers (rc45 etc). The Rsv4 fits that fine but they shoudn't in effect be all that you have to offer because supersport sales are falling and have been for years.
Right now i think they are trimming the fat (Derbi and maybe others) and hope to keep the rest afloat. My gut is they will see it out simply because as far as the the Italian govmt are concerned they are too big to fail.
Alitalia have been bust loads of times and run under CIG or state ownership for years so it's not a death senternce.
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Yes I know what you are saying Spoonz. Maybe they won't let Aprilia go under but they might cut it's b*ll*cks off. Look what happened to Lancia. They used to make beautiful, innovative world-beating cars, and now they make a pile of total sh*t.
I can't see the v4 Tuono making a big difference myself. It's gonna have many of the issues of the rsv4 in the eyes of potential customers isn't it?
The other thing is that it's all very well running an airline with government handouts but is it a good place for an innovative sport motorcycle manufacturer to be? Airline travel is a commodity thing and the sport/superbike market is quite a different market I think.
Rob
I can't see the v4 Tuono making a big difference myself. It's gonna have many of the issues of the rsv4 in the eyes of potential customers isn't it?
The other thing is that it's all very well running an airline with government handouts but is it a good place for an innovative sport motorcycle manufacturer to be? Airline travel is a commodity thing and the sport/superbike market is quite a different market I think.
Rob
Yes I know what you are saying Spoonz. Maybe they won't let Aprilia go under but they might cut it's b*ll*cks off. Look what happened to Lancia. They used to make beautiful, innovative world-beating cars, and now they make a pile of total sh*t.
I can't see the v4 Tuono making a big difference myself. It's gonna have many of the issues of the rsv4 in the eyes of potential customers isn't it?
The other thing is that it's all very well running an airline with government handouts but is it a good place for an innovative sport motorcycle manufacturer to be? Airline travel is a commodity thing and the sport/superbike market is quite a different market I think.
Rob
Maybe but i base the fact that they might now because they did prop them up before. Don't forget Piaggio as a group is huge. Aprilia is just a pimple in the empire.
2011 is a different world financially to 2004 though and Italians finances as a country are not great. Time will tell.
]
Accolades mean very little if no one is buying it. It's too focused to be a sales hit, it should have been a flagship special eddition ala Ducati sp range etc. They need a more mainstream model also that would be a more all rounder.
Plus it has some serious motor issues at least on the earlier models. I would not touch one with more than 10k on the clock with a barge pole. The later versions may be better, we shall see. I saw a guy posting the other day on another forum who's bike has 3k on it and developed serious noises. Aprilia have diagnosed it had seized due to lack of oil and are pointing the finger at the owner yet it is dealer serviced and only had 1 interim service.
The proof though is in Aprilia's bank balance. The Scorze factory has it's workforce being paid for by the government. A scheme called CIG whereby if the unions agree not to strike and a pay cut then the governemt NI scheme pays the workforce at 2/3 of normal wages in return for a 50% working week reduction. If they hadn't done it they would have closed. In the usa the dealers had the v4's on buy back schemes to get them in showrooms, they got most of them back and are stuck with out of date inventory. As a result the CEO walked/got canned.
The EU is pushing italy to change their labor laws currently which would prevent prop ups in the future so they must be worried. Derbi also Piaggio owned is closing the factory lock stock and barrel in Spain. That process is mid flow now and ends in Nov.
Yet Ducati have increased sales by 10% in the uk and 30% worldwide so you can't just blame recessions or prices as they are not cheap. Someone at Aprilia got the strategy wrong. They thought racing success would translate to sales. Wrong on 2 counts.
1. They put a Biaggi on it who is a PR nightmare
2. They have let many customers down with backup and word spread. (not for the first time).Those of us who owned Aprilia's in 04 have been here before. When Aprilia are in financial difficulty your warranty/customer service suffers and it's self perpetuating.
You can read the CIG agreement here if you want to read it yourself. http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/2010/02/articles/it1002049i.htm
Loving that Rc8. Had a good sit on one at the NEC last year.
Nothing to do with Checa then?
If the recession is crippling italian bikes, then why buy something that costs more than owt else
in that market & running costs, phew!
Those sales figures were 2010.
2011 not out yet so Checa was just middle pack at the time. Max was the in form man when Ducati's sales were rising. The big seller was the Multistrada which tells you something about buying habits.
There will always be a bubble around new model launches as there will be with the 1199 later this year but the Multi took sales to another level. Running costs, that old Ducati chestnut. Interim services £130, major £300 (incl belts). Fixed priced servicing now and 15k major service intervals on the new 1199. Buy a 996 and it will cost the earth but not the new generation of models.
My next bike will be a multi based on whats out there now. As i tour a bit it can scratch, do motorways, 2 up in comfort etc etc. In pikes peak livery. I don't dislike the new Tuono but the limited protection and 80 odd mile tank range ain't no good for what i need. The 2011 on v4 motor is a bit stronger too - major re work internally.
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Don't be fooled into thinking the 1199 is going to be some sort of midrange monster because it's 1200cc and a twin, it's so ridiculously over-square. It'll rev like an IL4 and just sound like a twin (no bad thing). The V4 was a good idea, it just hasn't been perfected yet.
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didnt rotax build a bigger more powerful engine for aprilia but they said no thanks we are going v4 and so rotax sold it to buell for there 1125cr thing
In theory the v4 is the ideal configuration for a bike motor. Hence why most motogp bikes use it.
Problem is it's also an expensive motor to build which feeds into the sale price of the bike. As i said before the v4 is a great idea but should be in the flagship models. They need something more all round which is a bit more of a bargain price wise but still ticks the boxes. There is nothing really for the rsv owner to trade in for aprilia wise unless he wants a v4 which is gonna cost him 12k +
The Rsv was always Ducati beating power for 2/3 the price and they sold well as did the Tuono. A 1200 twin if they could price it right could be just that again.
Not sure what the rev ceiling or torque figures are gonna be for the 1199 in production form but you may be right. ( 15k rpm on the factory bike) Too small for me whatever as is the v4
Problem is it's also an expensive motor to build which feeds into the sale price of the bike. As i said before the v4 is a great idea but should be in the flagship models. They need something more all round which is a bit more of a bargain price wise but still ticks the boxes. There is nothing really for the rsv owner to trade in for aprilia wise unless he wants a v4 which is gonna cost him 12k +
The Rsv was always Ducati beating power for 2/3 the price and they sold well as did the Tuono. A 1200 twin if they could price it right could be just that again.
Not sure what the rev ceiling or torque figures are gonna be for the 1199 in production form but you may be right. ( 15k rpm on the factory bike) Too small for me whatever as is the v4
