knee down mille action

lads, lasses
I have just bought (and rode for that matter) my first twin, a 2007 mille. It is fitted with Rennsports (which i intend to change after running in) and my previous bike was a gsxr 1000 k5. One of the reasons for buying the mille was the fun factor and the challenge, however having had a bike which was as easy to get my knee down on as it was to use the clutch I am a little concerned about the effort needed to get knee down action on my mille.
For the same speed as I was on K5, ( pilot powers) on the same road I seem to be nowhere near and only ground down after leaning at what felt like the most incredible lean angle and a few extra mph. The bike was solid, but I felt like I had leaned past the comfort zone and all feedback was very light and more hope than skill. (For reference I did scrub the tryres gradually but only 30 miles on the clock at this point) I believed the seat height to be similar to the K5, and am curious as to whether other riders find the mille to be harder to get your knee down. Is it me, the seat height, the peg position, the sides of the seat seem harder to move out on than my K5 or even tyres perhaps? Would miss it if knee downs became a thing of the past and other than that loving the bike...... :dunno

My 10p...

Reasons for lack of knee down....

Mille has a higher seat.
Mille is a narrow machine, so it 'feels' like you are hanging it out more...?
Mille is a better bike...
Cant think of any more... half a bottle of jack dont help..

Baz, I had a CBR600 previous to my Mille (had 18 months) and can get my knee down on both.

Had Bridgestones on CBR and Michelin 2 ct's so its not tyres fella.

I believe the Mille is a taller bike for one, and recon you may just have to get used to it. Failing that you will just have to move ur arse off the seat a little more or buddy.

I went from a Hornet 6 to my mille. The hornet was easy knee down everywhere, knee+peg required a bit more dedication, but still ok.

On the mille you do need to be a fair bit over. I just put it down to the fact it's pretty thin and the seat height it quite high as said. If I can manage on old sqaured off Bridgestone BT010's in October then you should be able to do it easily.

you deffoo have to 'hang off like a gibbon' on the millle, but its rock steady and great fun, just dont push too hard or you'l get yer knee, swiftly followed by elbow shoulder and head !. Just like Idid last summer. Was fun while it lasted tho, and I have burst my cherry and got knee down again.
cheers
CK

I know what you mean mate. On my old Gixer it was a piece of piss but takes a bit more effort on the tall Aprilia. Obviously you know how to ride so I wont insult you but a little tip for getting your knee down on this bike apart from really getting your arse off the seat and hanging off is to point your knee right out as far as you can. Not down at the road but outwards like you're trying to do the splits! Until you get the knack its best to pick a quiet roundabout on a sunday morning so you can do a few laps gradually getting lower. Will help to get tyres up to temp too. It works for me:thumbup Remember outwards not downwards. Would be interesting to hear what the experienced track riders like Badger think of this method?:eatcorn

I got the pegs down on my cbr1100 but not my knee :dunno just kept going round and round this roundabout sparking the pegs :roll.... oh well it was fun while it lasted . Would have been nice to grind my new sliders in :roll sliders still looking like new :roll:angry

rsvsteve said:

I got the pegs down on my cbr1100 but not my knee :dunno just kept going round and round this roundabout sparking the pegs :roll.... oh well it was fun while it lasted . Would have been nice to grind my new sliders in :roll sliders still looking like new :roll:angry

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Hang off more, and make sure you get your upper body off too.

Big_Ham said:

Hang off more, and make sure you get your upper body off too.

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Have backed off leaning it over getting knee down till the warmer weather comes nearer big ham...:thumbup hate the thought of the shiney black mille hitting the deck... its a tall machine aint it :thumbup

I tis rather, takes a fair whack of lean to get it over. At least you don't have to buy rear sets though.

Never had a problem on my ZX7R and ZX9R, they were easy to get knee action.
had a mate that couldn't get his knee down years ago and use to take the piss out of him and tell him the only time he was likely to get his knee down was if he wore his leathers when polishing his pride and joy.
Have a new pair of leathers at the moment which are proving difficult to stretch in restricting movement at the moment. been wearing them in doors to try and get them hot and spend time rolling around on the floor trying to stretch the crotch.
Had a race friend years ago who did burst my bubble a bit, knee down action on the road is not the fastest way round the corner. in order to get your knee down on the road you generally end up going slower, only has pose factor.
Next time your out ride the corners as quick and smooth as possible and see how close you get to getting your knee down. on track is a different matter consistently known surface and higher grip levels allows for higher corner speeds and thus allowing greater lean angles.
Just something to think about.

I guess its like everything though eh, once yourv'e done it its easy . M8 of mine who does knee downs all the time says its having confidennce in your tyres that you need and he not worrying that its going to hit the deck..............:confused How far off the deck must i have been when i was scraping the pegs To me it looks as if i was leaning it more than enough but just hadn't got my body position right even though it felt like my elbow was going to scrape the road :biggrin

the guy i was speaking of used to scrap the exhaust can on an early GSXR750. he definitely had enough lean angle, just wrong body position. he used to ride bolt upright. once we spent a day with him at a local (quiet) roundabout he managed it, and was no were near scraping exhausts.
The heroblobs on the pegs are there to let you know you are very close to running out of tyre and ground clearance. not a place to spend lots of time.

heroblob said:

the guy i was speaking of used to scrap the exhaust can on an early GSXR750. he definitely had enough lean angle, just wrong body position. he used to ride bolt upright. once we spent a day with him at a local (quiet) roundabout he managed it, and was no were near scraping exhausts.
The heroblobs on the pegs are there to let you know you are very close to running out of tyre and ground clearance. not a place to spend lots of time.

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Ill remember that heroblob i am leaning off and trying my best to take in all ive been told... *** off shoulder forward ect ect but to no avail as of yet so maybe a get together of a few of us to see if i can break my sliders in for the first time or should i leave it for the track as im thinking quite a few might suggest :dunno

Steve if you were scraping your pegs then you definitely had the bike over enough, when the roads get a bit warmer try my knee straight out method as I described above. It works like a charm mate. Also I find it's much better to bring your foot back a bit so the balls of your toes are on the peg otherwise you scrape the toe slider which looks cool but makes the buttocks clench a bit. Finally hang right off it and imagine you are peering around a tree. This body position works for me. Not saying this is all the best way to ride a bike and the race boys may well give better advice but this all works for me.:thumbup

Black Sabbath said:

Steve if you were scraping your pegs then you definitely had the bike over enough, when the roads get a bit warmer try my knee straight out method as I described above. It works like a charm mate. Also I find it's much better to bring your foot back a bit so the balls of your toes are on the peg otherwise you scrape the toe slider which looks cool but makes the buttocks clench a bit. Finally hang right off it and imagine you are peering around a tree. This body position works for me. Not saying this is all the best way to ride a bike and the race boys may well give better advice but this all works for me.:thumbup

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I will try that one BS cheers... ride with the balls on the pegs anyway :lol i must have enough confidence in my tyres to scape the pegs eh :thumbup although that was on another bike but i find the tyres ive got are very grippy even at this time of year :thumbup

Below is how i and friends acheived kneedown action many years ago, read and use at your own risk. i don't bother anymore, got it out of my system years ago, and found it faster cornering without. will still agree it is a laugh though.
Arse off seat, turn foot out as far as possible,try to get your toe pointing at 90deg to the bike, this forces your knee out away from the tank so nearer the road at lean angles. do not slide around tank when hanging off move sideways not round. moving round doesn't bring your knee any nearer the road but does over load the front forks. can end nastily. On 4 cylinder bikes we would approach a round about 1 gear higher than normal for given speed, this makes the throttle less sensitive to aggressive movements, safer. hang off prior to tipping in to round about and get settled. look well ahead for traffic coming onto the roundabout. circuit the roundabout and gently prob with your knee for the floor. don't expect to get it first/ second/ or third time. time is the key. adjust position and speed each time. it will come. i can ashore you that you will end up feeling like you are hanging off a long way.
go with a group as others can stand on the roundabout and let you know your position, and by how far you are from touch down.
Taking your time also warms the tyres.

heroblob said:

go with a group as others can stand on the roundabout and let you know your position, and by how far you are from touch down.

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Thats a good idea. I can remember the first time I got my knee down. Was trying for ages and then all of a sudden I touched down and was surprised at how loud the scraping sound was. Only did it for a few seconds and had to go and park up and very quietly cheer to myself. That day I got so into it I got through the front of my right slider, turned it around and did the other side and wore that one out I had to switch sliders then and almost wore out the other one! I know its not the best way to ride on the roads but it just makes that normal mille grin a little wider:biggrin

How about this then ....http://youtube.com/watch?v=n0v4greHKuI :roll

If you are trying to hang off too much without enough speed/lean angle you will feel as if the bike is wobbly and not going where you want it to be, this is down to not enough speed for the corner you are on, if i am riding on the road and going for it i get my knee down often, not trying to do it but due to corner speed and lean angle this will happen naturally.

The Mille is tall and does need more commitment than loads of other bikes, if you are going to try to get your knee down, find a constant radius corner away from traffic and people, take a mate in case you fall off.

Make sure your tyres are warm and keep doing the corner building up speed and lean angle, you must get your foot on the ball of the peg and get your butt of the seat, you can see in this pic of mine that my foot is turned out and on the ball of my foot, this will force your leg out towards the surface.



My advice is don't try it on a fast ride as you will be safer and quicker not doing it, at least till you are competent enough to do it naturally and carrying enough speed/lean angle.

You are in a better position whilst road riding if you are not hanging off like a gibbon, if you have to take avoiding action for any reason you will be in better control if sitting in the saddle.

Don't get to hung about not being able to do it, there are plenty of very fast riders who don't:thumbup