I'm looking for 3 or 4 riders who have either an 04-09 RSVR or 06-10 Tuono that HAVEN'T changed their FI map, i.e. still running Map1. Anywhere in the world would be good too. Please respond to me privately, Thanks.
Joined Jul 2008
1K Posts | 0+
North Lincolnshire, UK
Joined Aug 2009
5K Posts | 62+
Sunderland
*sigh*
Because I'm looking for a few people to test a product and I'm trying not to invite half the forum to my house!
No offense meant, I understand why people would question the secrecy.
Joined Aug 2009
5K Posts | 62+
Sunderland
Fair enough, here's the specifics. The product is The Booster Plug (boosterplug.com) and has been well-received in the BMW community. When I bought my T last year, I thoroughly enjoyed riding it (until 70+ inches of snow buried us) EXCEPT for the glitchy throttle. From all that I've read here and AF1, the Map1 is leeeean, which is part of the off-on-off throttle response. Steady throttle is ... not steady, the motor keeps hunting for smooth but never does. The bike has 3500 mi on it, perfect condition. I inquired to the owner of BoosterPlug about one for the Gen2 Apes and after some connector-hunting, he started building a version for the those models. He's ready for testing and gave me the go-ahead to find 4 other riders beside myself, ideally from other parts of the world to get different temp and air density tests.
So now, I'm easily 2-3 months away from riding with all the snow we have, but I want to connect 4 others to test the product, like an engineering exercise, takes notes, etc. I suggest reading the info on boosterplug.com for specifics on how it works and who he is. I also have a friend who installed it on his R1200GS, and swears by it. Also, check BMW forums for their reviews.
Questions ?
So now, I'm easily 2-3 months away from riding with all the snow we have, but I want to connect 4 others to test the product, like an engineering exercise, takes notes, etc. I suggest reading the info on boosterplug.com for specifics on how it works and who he is. I also have a friend who installed it on his R1200GS, and swears by it. Also, check BMW forums for their reviews.
Questions ?
Joined Jul 2008
1K Posts | 0+
North Lincolnshire, UK
I think the general principal is probably sound, but there are two areas that make me doubt it's suitability for the Rotax V990 Evo engines running Siemens ECU's.
1. Map 2 will pretty much achieve the same result for about £25.
Map 2 is a richer running ECU fueling map designed for "race" use. I reality it's the Map designed for the bike, but Aprilia can't officially sell it because it doesn't pass EU emission regs. You suffer none of the above problems on Map 2.
2. On Map 1 you are running closed loop with lambda sensors monitoring the fuel, if you enrichen the mixture as described the ECU will lean it back off based on the lambda output, the booster plug is reliant upon the delay in this, but the biggest problem the Ape suffers is hunting on steady low throttle running, where the problem will simply return.
I should comment that having dropped the overall gearing on Liz's Tuono to 15/40 from the stock 16/40 the problem is pretty much non-existent.
1. Map 2 will pretty much achieve the same result for about £25.
Map 2 is a richer running ECU fueling map designed for "race" use. I reality it's the Map designed for the bike, but Aprilia can't officially sell it because it doesn't pass EU emission regs. You suffer none of the above problems on Map 2.
2. On Map 1 you are running closed loop with lambda sensors monitoring the fuel, if you enrichen the mixture as described the ECU will lean it back off based on the lambda output, the booster plug is reliant upon the delay in this, but the biggest problem the Ape suffers is hunting on steady low throttle running, where the problem will simply return.
I should comment that having dropped the overall gearing on Liz's Tuono to 15/40 from the stock 16/40 the problem is pretty much non-existent.
Joined Oct 2010
3K Posts | 1+
Fook knows
I've never understood the fuelling issues meself. Never had a problem on any of me Prillas. I can understand folk wanting to change the gearing for their personal requirents, ie wheelies, but I reckon its just as much the fact that their big throbbing buggers that need good throttle and CLUTCH control. I know plenty of lads that ride a bike like they drive a car and have no idea about revs and gearing.
12345 pick nose etc.
12345 pick nose etc.
Joined Oct 2010
446 Posts | 0+
Edinburgh
The guy who had my RSV was a inline 4 guy and he maoaned about the hunting around town
Personally I never noticed it that bad and with the higher gearing I never notice it
But Ive had 2 bikes a vfr vtec and a Benelli tnt which both gave me this problem and annoying it can be
Some bikes suit certain people I would say
Personally I never noticed it that bad and with the higher gearing I never notice it
But Ive had 2 bikes a vfr vtec and a Benelli tnt which both gave me this problem and annoying it can be
Some bikes suit certain people I would say
Right. I've read about the Map2 being a much richer setting, but that doesn't play well with the stock cans with the catalytics in there, not to mention the how much back pressure is in there. Just swapping to Map2 creates a whole new set of problems, which could be improved with a set of aftermarket cans - more expensive than £25.
I agree with you on point 2, there's not much to get around that. My current gearing is also 15/40, but I plan to go to a 42 this spring. That should make the throttle open a bit more, out of the surging range of throttle position.
I've got a response in to Jens about some of this, I'll let you know what he says.
Joined Jul 2008
1K Posts | 0+
North Lincolnshire, UK
If your man wants a back to back comparison running his gizmo on Liz's Tuono with stock cans on Map1 and my Factory on Race cans, Map 2 & a race airbox, I will give it a go - I would expect to be using the bikes again in about a month or so.
Bearing in mind I am a sceptic he isn't going to get any positive bias on the results.
If Griff gets around to reading this thread he might want to comment re the Map 2 stock can thing.
Gearing wise I run 15/42 and it's excellent, keeps the engine spinning just a little higher at low speed, and really rocks on track.
Bearing in mind I am a sceptic he isn't going to get any positive bias on the results.
If Griff gets around to reading this thread he might want to comment re the Map 2 stock can thing.
Gearing wise I run 15/42 and it's excellent, keeps the engine spinning just a little higher at low speed, and really rocks on track.
Thanks for the offer, you clearly have Tuono's as a priority! One thing tho', the BoosterPlug shouldn't be used on a Map2 setting, because it's already a richer Map. The Booster would probably make it too rich. The idea is to enrichen Map1, allowing it to move between open and closed loop.
For the record, I plan to: do a baseline dyno run to get HP, Torque and EGA readings; install the Plug and dyno again, gathering same measurements. If I have time (and money) afterward I'll dyno yet again with aftermarket cans (thinking of Quills right now).
Anyway, I just rec'd mail from Jens last night, and he's balls out making product for BMW's, so the Ape Plug is back burner for now.
He had one comment re: surging:
"The BoosterPlug concept will usually cure the surging problem. Low RPM conditions is to a large extent an open loop situation because the cells in the low range of the fuel map are very small and closely spaced, so you're constantly shifting fuel cell even when you think you're at a steady speed."
I'd be interested to hear Griff's comments on the Map2/stock cans.
Cheers,
Joined Jun 2009
3K Posts | 3+
North East Ricoland
Ah say why bother...havin owned 2 aprilia v twins agree can be a wee bit rough tae drive in toon at low revs however nae tae the point it's undrivable. Jist dinna think its a problem. Personally widnae buy wan, wid go the map 2 and fancy cans route every time. Ah kin see how it fits in wi Beemer mentality tho....
Joined Jul 2008
1K Posts | 0+
North Lincolnshire, UK
Just to clarify - I meant comparing the Tuono R on Map 1 + booster plug with mine running Map 2 and race cans - If I ever tweak the ECU on the factory it will be with a PCIII and some dyno time.
Joined Aug 2009
5K Posts | 62+
Sunderland
When I first got my Gen 2 it was on map 2 and had the stock cans on. The bike ran well, with little or no hesitation at all. I then put after market cans on and it did give a bit more mid range.
