2004 RSV 1000 Factory - Cam timing

Norzilla · Aug 23, 2009

Hi does anyone know the cam timing for the 2004 RSV1000 Factory motor.

inlet and exhaust value opening and closing degree timing needed to set up injector firing sequence on Haltech EMS.

Thanks
John

spoonz · Aug 23, 2009

You may find it got built some way off, many are.
Piaggio built motors (post about mid 07) are often so far off as to be a joke. Sometimes even as much as 10 degrees out

Stock

inlet: 11.80mm 266° 25-61 108
exhaust: 10.60mm 259° 64-15 115

Most tuners alter it because the stock intake/exhaust velocity is slow (that means piss poor) and the motor is very tolerant of changes up to about 10 degrees or so.

Norzilla · Aug 24, 2009

spoonz said:
You may find it got built some way off, many are.
Piaggio built motors (post about mid 07) are often so far off as to be a joke. Sometimes even as much as 10 degrees out

Stock

inlet: 11.80mm 266° 25-61 108
exhaust: 10.60mm 259° 64-15 115

Most tuners alter it because the stock intake/exhaust velocity is slow (that means piss poor) and the motor is very tolerant of changes up to about 10 degrees or so.

Thanks for this info...

So you are saying that engines produced post mid 2007 are potentially rubbish, with bad timing?

Are you suggesting that most tuners change the base timing, ie advancing the cam timing up to 10deg to improve intake velocity? Is the 10deg from the design spec or from where they found the cam timing?

Thanks again for your help..... Haltech E6X EMS hopefully arriving tomorrow..... Mmmmmm :biggrin

spoonz · Aug 24, 2009

Norzilla said:
Thanks for this info...

So you are saying that engines produced post mid 2007 are potentially rubbish, with bad timing?

Are you suggesting that most tuners change the base timing, ie advancing the cam timing up to 10deg to improve intake velocity? Is the 10deg from the design spec or from where they found the cam timing?

Thanks again for your help..... Haltech E6X EMS hopefully arriving tomorrow..... Mmmmmm :biggrin

What i'm saying is Piaggio's tolerances are not what they were when Rotax were assembling the motors. The oem cam timing can vary much more than most would consider normal manufacturing tolerances. What you may find could be anything up to 10 degrees from what is the manufacturers claim.

They never have been spot on but certainly less so latterly.

The tuners i know go for 106/109 which will help with the intake/exhaust velocity especially if you have a big valve motor. Usually gives a good top end boost with no loss elsewhere.

Norzilla · Aug 24, 2009

spoonz said:
What i'm saying is Piaggio's tolerances are not what they were when Rotax were assembling the motors. The oem cam timing can vary much more than most would consider normal manufacturing tolerances. What you may find could be anything up to 10 degrees from what is the manufacturers claim.

They never have been spot on but certainly less so latterly.

The tuners i know go for 106/109 which will help with the intake/exhaust velocity especially if you have a big valve motor. Usually gives a good top end boost with no loss elsewhere.

Thanks again for this very useful information.

so the std cam is set at 106 for inlet and 109 for Exhaust instead of the factory 108 and 115 or are these different cams?

My motor is stamped Rotax and is from 2004 before Piaggio took over so maybe a little better assembled.... I hope.

thanks again

spoonz · Aug 24, 2009

Norzilla said:
Thanks again for this very useful information.

so the std cam is set at 106 for inlet and 109 for Exhaust instead of the factory 108 and 115 or are these different cams?

My motor is stamped Rotax and is from 2004 before Piaggio took over so maybe a little better assembled.... I hope.

thanks again

Yeah stock cams with the slotted gear to give adjustment.

Although Piaggio took over Aprilia in 04 assembled motors still came from Rotax until much later when they were in house assembled (sort of)

Norzilla · Aug 25, 2009

spoonz said:
Yeah stock cams with the slotted gear to give adjustment.

Although Piaggio took over Aprilia in 04 assembled motors still came from Rotax until much later when they were in house assembled (sort of)

I had the front head off and inspected the cams, while correcting another issue the motor had, it seems hard to believe that the factory could get the timing wrong as there are marks to set the timing!

when you talk about a slotted gear are you talking about the alignment holes in the cam sprocket or something different(only one hole lines up for any given position)? Also I am assuming that to calc the angle you are using a degree wheel off the crank as in normal practice?

Cheers
ps sorry for all the questions, i do like to understand everything in great detail!!!

spoonz · Aug 25, 2009

Norzilla said:
I had the front head off and inspected the cams, while correcting another issue the motor had, it seems hard to believe that the factory could get the timing wrong as there are marks to set the timing!

when you talk about a slotted gear are you talking about the alignment holes in the cam sprocket or something different(only one hole lines up for any given position)? Also I am assuming that to calc the angle you are using a degree wheel off the crank as in normal practice?

Cheers
ps sorry for all the questions, i do like to understand everything in great detail!!!

Sorry i'll explain it better this time.

The engine is assembled with the markings in the correct place (TDC marking on crank is correct to about 1 degree usually ) but the claimed timing of the valve openings etc varies wildly to what is often the reality.

Either they machined the cams to wildy varying tolerances or the cam gears are not matched to the shafts properly. (more likely)
By slotting the gears you can give yourself a degree of variation either way to correct or alter the actual timing to suit.

If you measure the actual valve timings on your motor it will be interesting to see what you get. I mentioned it to someone after your first post and the known record is an intake timing 14 degress out from oem spec.

measuring in situ is not easy.

Norzilla · Aug 26, 2009

spoonz said:
Sorry i'll explain it better this time.

The engine is assembled with the markings in the correct place (TDC marking on crank is correct to about 1 degree usually ) but the claimed timing of the valve openings etc varies wildly to what is often the reality.

Either they machined the cams to wildy varying tolerances or the cam gears are not matched to the shafts properly. (more likely)
By slotting the gears you can give yourself a degree of variation either way to correct or alter the actual timing to suit.

If you measure the actual valve timings on your motor it will be interesting to see what you get. I mentioned it to someone after your first post and the known record is an intake timing 14 degress out from oem spec.

measuring in situ is not easy.

Thanks... that is quite an incredible variation in machining.

My motor is back in the frame and the fit is so tight that i can't even get the cam covers off to check anything... the checks will have to be done next time the motor is out.... Not easy to fit such a big motor in a Norton Featherbed frame.

one final question? What do you do to slot the gears?

spoonz · Aug 26, 2009

Norzilla said:
Thanks... that is quite an incredible variation in machining.

My motor is back in the frame and the fit is so tight that i can't even get the cam covers off to check anything... the checks will have to be done next time the motor is out.... Not easy to fit such a big motor in a Norton Featherbed frame.

one final question? What do you do to slot the gears?

slot the mounting points so you can rotate the gear on the cam slightly.

The gear is very very hard so milling slots is tough going.
spark eroding is a good way or a little grinder might do it with patience.

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